US T30 With Money Worth it?

[Conge]

On 10/16/2021 at 4:03 PM, Kobe said:

Have an offer from a t30 with 80%+ scholarship, seems I would have far less debt using this option. I would plan to stay in the US post grad, I don't have a preference between living in either country, if anything I lean to being in the US for earning potential. Just trying to maximize bang for buck/time with earning potential. 

TN Visa seems easy enough to get, has anyone on this forum gone down this route? I know some say t14 is the only way to go but having literally less than half the debt I would in Canada with higher median salaries is tempting. Interest is in business law/transactional work, I realize there's lateral opportunities from Canadian firms to the US if I choose to stay here, but is it worth the extra cost for the added security of being able to practice in Canada?

For reference my tuition would be 9k*3 for the JD, haven't tried negotiating yet either. 

It really depends on what school you are talking about. T30, I think, includes schools like Iowa and Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. Those are fine schools; probably more competitive than most Canadian schools. But I don't think they offer especially good prospects for US big law, and there won't be much name recognition in Canada.

I had a TN when I worked in the US and it's super easy to get one, if an employer will do all the work. That's a big if. 

[Dood]

On 10/16/2021 at 5:25 PM, BlockedQuebecois said:

Some of the T30 schools also have inflated name brands in Canada for cultural reasons—a lot of lower information employers would recognize Notre Dame, Boston College, Vanderbilt and Georgetown over some of the T14 schools (Penn, Michigan, Virginia). 

This was a great post. @Kobe not sure if you are still deciding or waiting on decisions from other schools, but this same mentality applies to employers in the U.S. tbh. Not all T30 schools outside the T14 are equal in that regard.

Schools shift up and down in the annual rankings because they have to - solely to justify selling a new rankings list annually to begin with. There are certain name brand T30 schools (mentioned above) like ND and BC that continually outperform other more regional schools in that tier in job outcomes. I would actually look at the law school rankings that the Above the Law blog posts every year, as it focuses on job outcomes and debt instead of crap factors like square footage of the law library (that US News considers). 

Looks like the Above the Law rankings now require you to sign up for their email list to access (which is obnoxious), but from my perspective it gives you a more realistic ranking of schools as they relate to actually getting a good job afterward.

[Kobe]

6 hours ago, Dood said:

This was a great post. @Kobe not sure if you are still deciding or waiting on decisions from other schools, but this same mentality applies to employers in the U.S. tbh. Not all T30 schools outside the T14 are equal in that regard.

Schools shift up and down in the annual rankings because they have to - solely to justify selling a new rankings list annually to begin with. There are certain name brand T30 schools (mentioned above) like ND and BC that continually outperform other more regional schools in that tier in job outcomes. I would actually look at the law school rankings that the Above the Law blog posts every year, as it focuses on job outcomes and debt instead of crap factors like square footage of the law library (that US News considers). 

Looks like the Above the Law rankings now require you to sign up for their email list to access (which is obnoxious), but from my perspective it gives you a more realistic ranking of schools as they relate to actually getting a good job afterward.

Still waiting on some decisions, I think I'll be making my choice in about a month. Everyone has been really helpful to this point in the thread. 

[linda]

What does the exit opportunities out of US Big law and mid-law look like for you? How does that compare to exit opportunities from Canadian Big law firms?

difference⁈

On 10/17/2021 at 5:44 AM, Darth Vader said:

If you want to do US Big law, I would definitely look into accepting the offer. However, I would also bear in mind that the attrition rate is very high within the first few years. You rarely see US Big law Associates spend more than 5 years in Big law. I wouldn't pick a law school based on short-term monetary gain, but look into where you think you will live and work 5+ years out of law school. What does the exit opportunities out of US Big law and mid-law look like for you? How does that compare to exit opportunities from Canadian Big law firms? If you think you will settle down in the US in the long-term, then I would definitely take the T-30. If you think you prefer the exit opportunities and lifestyle in Canada, then I would attend a Canadian law school. 

Do not attend a school outside the top 15 hoping to come back to Canada, because many employers will likely not have heard of the school. Only make this choice if you are prepared to live and work in the US in the long-term.

There are lots of US Big law jobs and they don't just go to people from the T14. And not everyone at the T14 schools even want to pursue Big law jobs. I think it is very doable from a T30 provided you have above average grades and/or network really well.