Current offer vs Future ones

[99problems]

Hi folks,

 

I am a 3L in Ontario, and I am still in the process of looking for an articling position. I had some interviews this week and will be having some in the coming weeks. I wonder what I should do when I get an offer from a place but it is not my favourite one. I presume that I cannot merely accept an offer and be actively looking for another position. Some of my interviews are with Vancouver firms, but moving there with my wife and kid would be another hurdle. For instance, I will have an interview with a Toronto firm next month but got an interview with a Vancouver firm tomorrow.

I'd rather to stay in Toronto provided that the practice area of the firm matches my interest. But there is no guarantee that I will be offered a position in Toronto later if I turn down a Vancouver offer now.

What should I do?

[CleanHands]

I'm not sure what you expect people to say. This is a call that you have to make that is entirely dependent upon your personal situation and preferences. You won't be able to hang on to an offer for a month in the event you land something more preferable. The recruits in different markets are staggered this way precisely to prevent those with Toronto preferences from using Vancouver etc as "backup" markets.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, but you shouldn't be applying to places you would be unwilling to work in the first place.

Edited October 21, 2021 by CleanHands

[123]

Are there devastating repercussions to accepting/delaying on an offer, while you hope a prettier firm asks you to dance? Probably not. But it's also not great. It's icky behaviour. You know that. Otherwise, you wouldn't be asking the question. 

Going with what's safe and available vs. something that's better and riskier is the quintessential career choice. And @CleanHands is right that we can't make it for you. You have to decide your risk tolerance, based upon your personality, your finances, your family, your interests, etc. But regardless of what you choose, being decisive and true to your word will reflect better on you than whatever else you're considering doing. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by realpseudonym

[Avatar Aang]

I faced a similar situation in law school and just cancelled the interviews I didn't want to do. Why waste everyone's time playing this game? Also be considerate to other students that are looking for positions and may have that firm as their first choice. You shouldn't be shopping around offers at this point in your career.

[scooter]

For what it's worth, in my undergrad program it was a pretty serious offense if you reneged on an offer from employers who were recruiting on campus/through university job boards. The school has relationships to maintain with employers, and the career services office may have a policy about this which can lead to academic penalties. You may want to look into it. From a recruiting standpoint it really screws over the employer if you accept an offer and then go back on it.

[Rashabon]

2 minutes ago, scooter said:

For what it's worth, in my undergrad program it was a pretty serious offense if you reneged on an offer from employers who were recruiting on campus/through university job boards. The school has relationships to maintain with employers, and the career services office may have a policy about this which can lead to academic penalties. You may want to look into it. From a recruiting standpoint it really screws over the employer if you accept an offer and then go back on it.

Strongly suggest not analogizing undergrad to law school.

OP: You should read up on law society rules. I won't give you advice, but as a hopeful future lawyer you can do some research there. In particular:

https://lso.ca/Becoming-Licensed/Lawyer-Licensing-Process/Articling-Candidates/Finding-a-Placement/2021-22-Articling-Recruitment-Procedures#a-definitions-7

Students who accept an offer shall immediately notify firms from whom they have an outstanding offer or with whom they have scheduled interviews. Students who have already accepted an offer shall not thereafter participate in interviews with other firms or accept offers subsequently received.

Firms shall not knowingly make an offer to a student who has already accepted a position at another firm.

[scooter]

6 minutes ago, Rashabon said:

Strongly suggest not analogizing undergrad to law school.

 

Lmao, I mean... I was kinda right though. Turns out there is an analogous rule, it's just through the LSO instead of the career services office. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[goosie]

To be honest this seems like a decision you should be making with your wife and kid (depending on the age of your kid). You may have already discussed it with them, but it sounds like it wouldn't just be you moving to Vancouver. Do you have any kind of support system in Vancouver, like friends or family who could help you settle in? Does your wife have a job in Toronto that she'd have to leave or relocate? Is your kid at an age when it's still relatively easy to adjust to a new environment and making new friends? I would discuss all of this with your wife and come to an understanding on where you both stand in terms of possibly of moving across the country, and once you have an offer you can make the best decision based on the circumstances.

[123]

7 minutes ago, goosie said:

like a decision you should be making with your wife and kid (depending on the age of your kid).

“At not not a lawyer jr., should mommy/daddy take the offer at Guild Yule, or hold out for the firm with the vastly more fun name: Beard Winter?”

Edited October 22, 2021 by realpseudonym

[goosie]

4 minutes ago, realpseudonym said:

“At not not a lawyer jr., should mommy/daddy take the offer at Guild Yule, or hold out for the firm with the vastly more fun name: Beard Winter?”

Lol I meant like if they're a teenager are they generally okay to move across the country but I see your point

[Rashabon]

56 minutes ago, scooter said:

Lmao, I mean... I was kinda right though. Turns out there is an analogous rule, it's just through the LSO instead of the career services office. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

They are not remotely the same. One is a professional obligation, but also permits you to rescind your offer and go find a new one. Your point was about hypothetical academic penalties at the law school for reneging an offer, something that is entirely permissible. It's not remotely the same. The idea that law students need to act in the interests of the schools when dealing with employers is off the mark as well.

[scooter]

1 hour ago, Rashabon said:

Students who have already accepted an offer shall not thereafter participate in interviews with other firms or accept offers subsequently received.

8 minutes ago, Rashabon said:

One is a professional obligation, but also permits you to rescind your offer and go find a new one.

?

[Apple]

The LSO has answered this question on their website. The relevant recruitment rules are as follows: 

"Students shall deal with offers received as expeditiously as possible regardless of the stipulated time that the offer shall be allowed to remain open.
Commentary: Failure to communicate a rejection of an offer as soon as a decision to reject is made prejudices not only the offering firm but also other students to whom the offer may next be made.

Students who accept an offer shall immediately notify firms from whom they have an outstanding offer or with whom they have scheduled interviews. Students who have already accepted an offer shall not thereafter participate in interviews with other firms or accept offers subsequently received."

In other words, your professional obligations are not to play cat and mouse. Once you accept an offer you're free to break it to the extend that you're okay with breaking your professional obligations and contractual terms. Probably not the best idea to do for someone who wants to be a member in the profession. 

What you should do is whatever is best for you and your family. If rejecting Vancouver offers for a chance at Toronto is what you think is best then do that. We cannot really make this decision for you given that the number of variables to be considered is numerous and we do not have all the facts. Also, don't take family advise from random people on the internet. 

[Law nerd 221]

Why would you even interview with a Vancouver firm if you don't want to take it?!