Forums & Negativity

[Jaggers]

I don't follow the student threads, where most of this drama happens, but realpseudonym is one of the nicest, most reasonable people around here!

[Yogurt Baron]

Yeah, RP's a big-time class act, one of the consistently most level-headed and kindest people around here. When I read the post calling him out, I was ready to jump in all, "Look, he may have been a dick on one occasion, but he's generally pretty terrific." Then I clicked on the links, and...what do you know, he wasn't even a dick on one occasion! So...an interesting hill to die on, for sure.

[Naj]

5 hours ago, Yogurt Baron said:

Yeah, RP's a big-time class act, one of the consistently most level-headed and kindest people around here. When I read the post calling him out, I was ready to jump in all, "Look, he may have been a dick on one occasion, but he's generally pretty terrific." Then I clicked on the links, and...what do you know, he wasn't even a dick on one occasion! So...an interesting hill to die on, for sure.

I never said he was rude (that's not really my concern), nor do I think that was his intention. My commentary about negativity mostly concerned cleanhands. However, I did say he was being intellectually dishonest during the one exchange we shared, and that it resulted in a degraded ability to converse, and by extension works against the purpose that this forum is intended to fulfill. 

Its one thing to be rude and a whole other to be intellectually dishonest and as a result pervert a given discussion. The former is inevitable, a simple product of social communication and for the most part isn't so problematic as long as its kept in check every now and then. The latter is a little more complicated. Long time users on this forum who have built a history of providing generally valuable and reliable contributions have considerable sway in their opinions and conduct. Now, they might not have sway over you, they certainly do have sway over more 'premature' and anxious applicants and students. If you're competent enough to gain the consistent approval of your relatively senior peers on this forum, I don't think its unreasonable to expect that you take a little more caution in the contributions you end up providing, especially when engaged with your younger counterparts. 

Obviously there's a general consensus amongst frequent users that @realpseudonym is nice and level headed, but that's not so salient to newcomers who only have their first impression and experience to go off on. I don't want to refer too much back to the original post here, but I think it fails to make a proper distinction between negativity (or rudeness) and intellectual dishonesty. 

5 hours ago, Yogurt Baron said:

When I read the post calling him out, I was ready to jump in all, "Look, he may have been a dick on one occasion, but he's generally pretty terrific." Then I clicked on the links, and...what do you know, he wasn't even a dick on one occasion! So...an interesting hill to die on, for sure.

I mean this is a prime example of what I'm talking about. Your preexisting positive judgement of him prevents you from realizing that the issue here isn't that he was/is a dick, it is the resulting effect of his dishonesty that seemed to arise out of a place of passion for the subject discussion referred to, which to me would seem like a more pressing concern than being a dick (because people are always bound to be a dick at some point in some place, its inevitable). I too probably could and should have made this more clear in my comment, but I honestly don't think that would have made much of a difference precisely because people are just going to glance at the discussion referred to before filling in the gaps as they please and reaching whatever conclusion they wish to about the type of person RS is - even though that's problematic.

Since I'm being a little more genuine and serious here, I'll say that I found this post 'funny' because it brushes over the issue of dishonesty amongst users on this forum whilst honing on what is supposed to be a peripheral concern about negativity, since to some degree its pretty much inevitable and therefore useless to drool over (in so far as it seems to already be well-moderated here).

I can almost guarantee you that most applicants who come here and participate on an off-topic forum discussion about relative service costs across different countries, just to get baited by dishonest arguments made by senior users and straw manned into supposedly "defending a modern slave state" before being piled on, will not be back. I'm personally not so affected because I see the value in this forum - it's personally helped me develop my own thinking, reading, and writing - and I find that having people shit on me, whether justified or not, as a worthy trade off, or perhaps better said, as a necessary part of the process. 

However, what is problematic is being intellectually dishonest and hiding under the guise of the occasional 'dick-headiness' that one is permitted to indulge in. Users can generally be trusted to be competent enough to filter contributions that are intended solely to be snarky and self serving vs. actually useful input. Yes, sometimes the two can co-occur. In any case, that's not a problem that needs policing (atleast not on a user level as opposed to a moderator level). On the other hand, there's very little new users can do against an attack that is intellectually dishonest in nature that also effectively encourages other users to "pile-on" (and its probably harder to moderate this as opposed to "rudeness") and bask in the glory of being fraudulently intellectually superior, or in the case at hand concerning realpsyd, morally superior for a moment.

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Naj

[Hegdis]

If the forum dynamics are prompting lengthy dissertations on forum personalities, you might want to step back from the forum a bit. Best advice I have. 

[Naj]

40 minutes ago, Hegdis said:

If the forum dynamics are prompting lengthy dissertations on forum personalities, you might want to step back from the forum a bit. Best advice I have. 

I admit my initial comment came of as such. I've done what I can in further elaborating that I am indeed not interested on the existing forum personalities but that my actual intention is to highlight the original post overlooking the actual issue, being intellectual dishonesty (in which I made reference to a relevant and recent scenario), in favor of trivially drooling over negativity as I explained in the comment above you. 

Its in my interest that this forum continue to grow and prevail, I don't think I'm going to step away for bringing to light a consideration about intellectually dishonest conduct that is salient enough to have a material effect on new user retention and engagement. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Naj

[Chewy]

I’m still struggling to see how @realpseudonym is coming across as intellectually dishonest based on the thread that @Naj linked to child labour in the UAE. 

[Naj]

10 minutes ago, Chewy said:

I’m still struggling to see how @realpseudonym is coming across as intellectually dishonest based on the thread that @Naj linked to child labour in the UAE. 

Are you expecting me to start cross post explanations or something? I'm not sure what's difficult to read when I've already gone through the trouble of elaborating in that way before exiting that particular discussion as a whole and then further referring to it in this thread. If you can't figure what's written in plain simple English and conveniently linked, what exactly are you asking for? 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Naj

[Chewy]

1 minute ago, Naj said:

Are you expecting me to start cross post explanations or something? I'm not sure what's difficult to read when I've already gone through the trouble of elaborating in that way before exiting the discussion as a whole and then further referring to it in this thread. If you can't figure what's written in plain simple English and conveniently linked, what exactly are you asking for? 

You keep referencing that thread, so don’t act like it’s unreasonable for others to question where your resentment stems from. 

From what I’ve read, you’re arguing that they child labor doesn’t exist in the UAE even though other users have provided proof that it does. Your defence seems to be “I lived there for 18 years, I’d know”. 

[Naj]

3 minutes ago, Chewy said:

You keep referencing that thread, so don’t act like it’s unreasonable for others to question where your resentment stems from. 

From what I’ve read, you’re arguing that they child labor doesn’t exist in the UAE even though other users have provided proof that it does. Your defence seems to be “I lived there for 18 years, I’d know”. 

If that's your take away then I'm afraid no one can help you. I'm signing out of this thread.

 

Good luck.

[Chewy]

34 minutes ago, Naj said:

If that's your take away then I'm afraid no one can help you. I'm signing out of this thread.

 

Good luck.

Hey now, that’s seems like a pretty negative comment!

There was nobody encouraging other posters to “pile on” any negativity towards you. You took it far too personally, in my opinion, enough so that you revived a year old thread linking to another thread that you’re upset someone else is referencing.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Chewy
Grammar

[Naj]

44 minutes ago, Chewy said:

Get a grip.

You've edited your comment 4 times now, each time significantly changing the content of your reply trying to get in something smug and funny. Are you after some attention or praise for what you think is impressive humor? 

You can't seriously expect me to hold your hand and take you through what is a series texts that only requires a base level comprehension to understand, and in which I explicitly  note the dishonest representation of what was being argued. You also now misunderstand that "effectively encouraging a pile-on" does not require someone to actively incite a pile on, but rather that the communication in questions has the effect of inviting others to participate in ridiculing; this is exactly what happened when my claim was misrepresented to appear absurd and morally bankrupt in suggesting that I was "defending a modern slave state" - which is verbatim the words of another user who did not partake in the discussion but reached that conclusion by concurring with RS's intellectually dishonest comments. 

The only reason I'm replying is I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt in thinking you're not trolling right now. 

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Naj

[BlockedQuebecois]

Quote

my claim was misrepresented to appear absurd and morally bankrupt in suggesting that I was "defending a modern slave state" - which is verbatim the words of another user who did not partake in the discussion but reached that conclusion by concurring with RS's intellectually dishonest comments. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by BlockedQuebecois

[Chewy]

1 minute ago, Naj said:

You've edited your comment 4 times now, each time significantly changing the content of your reply trying to get in something smug and funny. Are you after some attention or praise for what you think is impressive humor? 

You can't seriously expect me to hold your hand and take you through what is a series texts that only requires a base level comprehension to understand, and in which I explicitly  note the dishonest representation of what was being argued. You also now misunderstand that "effectively encouraging a pile-on" does not require someone to actively incite a pile on, but rather that the communication in questions has the effect of inviting others to participate in ridiculing; this is exactly what happened when my claim was misrepresented to appear absurd and morally bankrupt in suggesting that I was "defending a modern slave state" - which is verbatim the words of another user who did not partake in the discussion but reached that conclusion by concurring with RS's intellectually dishonest comments. 

The only reason I'm replying is I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt in thinking you're not trolling right now. 

 

Nothing of significance was changed, I just decided to remove the "Get a grip" because I felt it was unnecessary upon reflection. 

Listen to you. How conflated is your ego that you feel the need resort to such incredibly condescending behaviour so quickly? Are you that fragile? Based on your reaction and argument, I'd say yes.

 

[Naj]

12 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Sorry, is this you in the beginning of making a wildly stupid claim that you were unable to support?

7 minutes ago, Chewy said:

Nothing of significance was changed, I just decided to remove the "Get a grip" because I felt it was unnecessary upon reflection. 

Edit 1: "Mission accomplished"

Edit 2: "Hey, now that's not a nice comment!"

And so on...

Are we really going to start flat out lying here? In any case, I guess you really were just trolling. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Naj

[Chewy]

3 minutes ago, Naj said:

Sorry, is this you in the beginning of making a wildly stupid claim that you were unable to support?

Edit 1: "Mission accomplished"

Edit 2: "Hey, now that's not a nice comment!"

And so on...

Are we really going to start flat out lying here? In any case, I guess you really were just trolling. 

Oh yeah, I did write mission accomplished. If you consider this flat out lying to somehow try to justify your reaction, that's sad. 

 

Also, in response to your comment FAO BQ, am I missing something here??

[BlockedQuebecois]

I would link to where @Naj responded to easttowest’s clear question regarding whether Naj agreed the UAE is a modern slave state and gave them the perfect platform to condemn it… but Naj never responded. 

Seriously, why are people acting like this person deserves good faith replies? The most charitable read of their posts is that they're totally cool with the UAE’s use of slaves so long as they check their IDs to make sure none of the children they’re withhold healthcare and education from are sneaking into their workplaces. 

We should be banning people like this, not pretending their positions deserve even the slightest serious comment. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by BlockedQuebecois

[CleanHands]

7 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Seriously, why are people acting like this person deserves good faith replies?

Not sure what you are referring to. They are getting dogpiled.

7 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

We should be banning people like this

Disagree. They should be allowed to post dumb shit and people should be allowed to call them out for it.

[Kurrika]

2 hours ago, Naj said:

pervert

 

[Naj]

17 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

I would link to where @Naj responded to easttowest’s clear question regarding whether Naj agreed the UAE is a modern slave state and gave them the perfect platform to condemn it… but Naj never responded. 

Seriously, why are people acting like this person deserves good faith replies? The most charitable read of their posts is that they're totally cool with the UAE’s use of slaves so long as they check their IDs to make sure none of the children they’re withhold healthcare and education from are sneaking into their workplaces. 

We should be banning people like this, not pretending their positions deserve even the slightest serious comment. 

You made a wildly stupid claim that you ultimately failed to support. You then moved the goal-post to suggest that my non response to an irrelevant question of condemnation is indicative of support for a morally bankrupt position and suggested I get banned. 

You're despicable. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Naj

[123]

2 hours ago, Naj said:

I never said he was rude (that's not really my concern), nor do I think that was his intention.

I just want to be clear that it was my intention to be rude to you. Apologies if there was any confusion there. 

[Naj]

4 minutes ago, realpseudonym said:

I just want to be clear that it was my intention to be rude to you. Apologies if there was any confusion there. 

Its okay, I would want to be rude too if I was a lawyer who had a child like outburst midst conversation with a mere applicant. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Naj

[ZineZ]

1 minute ago, Naj said:

Its okay, I would want to be rude too if I was a lawyer who had a child like outburst midst conversation with a mere applicant. 

Alright. That's enough. 

You've aired your frustrations and have now moved on to insults generally that aren't necessary. 

I'm giving this thread a pause.