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How difficult is it to get a job in Toronto from an out of province school?


supersulu
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BlockedQuebecois
  • Lawyer
2 minutes ago, Darth Vader said:

I wish UBC's data broke it down by practice area and employment type, than just mentioning the employer size. You don't know if it's a law firm, corporation, non-profit organization, etc. otherwise. 

I would be shocked if an appreciable number of corporations or non-profits have >50 lawyers, but I agree. I don't think schools are required to collect data on that level of granularity, though.

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easttowest
  • Lawyer
26 minutes ago, Darth Vader said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't you say in the past that you had connections on Bay Street?

I can’t recall if I’ve shared that here or at the old place. However, this is in a strict sense true, so since you’re aware of it, I may have. 

I won’t go into this much in public, but will elaborate a bit since that fact would understandably colour any Bay St advice I have. I can assuredly say that the connection I once had played no role in me getting a job: I didn’t apply to the relevant firm, we don’t share a family name, and without being specific, that connection was no longer practicing and was (and remains) unavailable to me by the time I was applying. 

Since the default reaction to that is “well of course they would say that,” by all means feel free to PM me. 

 

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erin otoole
  • Articling Student
23 minutes ago, Sriracha said:

UBC provides additional statistics to their students and alumni on their ACE website. Here's the class of 2020 stats in case anyone finds it helpful: Class of 2020 - March 2021 - FINAL.pdf

Interesting that no one went to the LPP at Ryerson. There is a extremely small minority of "article doomers" as I have come to call them on my own terms at Windsor. Mostly kids that aren't willing to put in the extra effort to find a job, or holding out for Big law for some reason. Is there any mention of the program at the schools not in Ontario? Are these doomers a unique Windsor thing, or do they not exist at the other schools? 

By article doomers I refer to students that struck out of the formal recruit and have stopped bothering to apply to firms. 

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CleanHands
  • Lawyer
5 minutes ago, erin otoole said:

Interesting that no one went to the LPP at Ryerson. There is a extremely small minority of "article doomers" as I have come to call them on my own terms at Windsor. Mostly kids that aren't willing to put in the extra effort to find a job, or holding out for Big law for some reason. Is there any mention of the program at the schools not in Ontario? Are these doomers a unique Windsor thing, or do they not exist at the other schools? 

By article doomers I refer to students that struck out of the formal recruit and have stopped bothering to apply to firms. 

I mean, aside from the vast majority of UBC students being unable or unwilling to go to Ontario for (at least) a year, it's possible that outcomes are better for UBC law students than Winsor ones. 🤔

ETA - I'm in the class that just graduated and anecdotally I do know a few people who decided not to pursue articles at all but I don't know a single person who has actively attempted to secure an articling position who doesn't have one half a year later.

Edited by CleanHands
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erin otoole
  • Articling Student
3 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

I mean, aside from the vast majority of UBC students being unable or unwilling to go to Ontario for (at least) a year, it's possible that outcomes are better for UBC law students than Winsor ones. 🤔

I just falsely figured across a large number of students there would be at least 1 kid that just gave up. For applicants reading if you hustle you will find paid articles with a Windsor degree. My friend with a C average found articles two months ago. 

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CleanHands
  • Lawyer
Just now, erin otoole said:

I just falsely figured across a large number of students there would be at least 1 kid that just gave up. For applicants reading if you hustle you will find paid articles with a Windsor degree. My friend with a C average found articles two months ago. 

Yeah sorry, I was literally just editing my post as you responded to address that. I do know people who "gave up," you could say. Actually one of them decided to become a tree planter and he's happier doing that than most articling students I know are with their lot in life so maybe that's not "giving up" but rather him figuring something out that the rest of us didn't.

But enrolling in the LPP would involve still having an interest in getting called and becoming a lawyer. By that standard of "giving up" I think comparable UBC students tend to just "settle" for uncompetitive articling jobs at small firms in BC to ride out articles before getting called.

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realpseudonym
  • Lawyer
On 12/7/2021 at 4:57 PM, CleanHands said:

ETA - I'm in the class that just graduated and anecdotally I do know a few people who decided not to pursue articles at all but I don't know a single person who has actively attempted to secure an articling position who doesn't have one half a year later.

I generally agree that pretty well everyone gets articles, so this is mostly quibbling. 

That said, I do know a few people from various schools who didn't end up articling. My impression was that for some of them, the distinction between choosing not to pursue articles and failing to secure articles was a little fuzzy. Post-graduation, a couple of them were still applying. They presented their situation as choosing not to article, presumably as a face-saving measure, and ended up doing something else shortly thereafter. I found it hard to say how much choice and effort was involved, but would speculate that there was some degree of both. 

Some also keep their unemployment pretty quiet. That's not an effective job-seeking strategy, as it fails use their network. But pride and shame are things that people feel, and law school is junior high for grown-ups. So I think there are a small handful of people who drop off the map after law school, and no one really notices that they didn't end up being lawyers. That might be less the case for you. You might be more plugged in, and UBC grads probably land pretty well after graduating. But I know first-hand that there are a few people who quietly disappear and don't get counted in their classmates' employment counts. 

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