UBC vs UofT

[cpup630]

I'm having a really hard time making a decision. I haven't gotten into both yet but (knock on wood!) best case scenario if I do get into both. I really like UBC's environmental specialization which I know UofT doesn't have but I'm from Toronto and would love to study here too. Any thoughts? 

[CleanHands]

You're going to need to be more specific about what kind of work you want to do and where after graduating.

[Deadpool]

I would probably go to UBC simply because the tuition is 12k while U of T is 35k. U of T does not offer you anything that you cannot also get at UBC, even if you did want to practice in Ontario. A case may be made that U of T's JD/MBA program is a worthwhile investment if you want to work in the US. However, going from Canada to the US or another country is not a difficult move to make if you land a big firm job. In addition, if you are a high performer at U of T, then you would probably be a high performer at UBC as well.

I would focus on career outcomes out of these schools, rather than just the specializations they offer. For example, very few people actually end up practicing in the environmental law field. Both U of T and UBC are corporate-focused schools, and this is where most of their students seem to end up out of law school. 

https://www.law.utoronto.ca/student-life/career-development-office/career-statistics

[cpup630]

On 12/14/2021 at 3:54 PM, CleanHands said:

You're going to need to be more specific about what kind of work you want to do and where after graduating.

I dont really want to go down the traditional law path per se. I'm currently getting a bachelor in environmental studies where I'm learning about the environment and its intersection with businesses. I wanted to have a law degree to support that knowledge and ultimately work within businesses to make their processes more sustainable from a regulations/policy perspective. Many environmental departments within companies are within legal departments which is why I think it would be helpful to have a law degree. I also should say that after all this I do want to work in Toronto.

Edited December 15, 2021 by cpup630

[CleanHands]

13 minutes ago, cpup630 said:

I dont really want to go down the traditional law path per se. I'm currently getting a bachelor in environmental studies where I'm learning about the environment and its intersection with businesses. I wanted to have a law degree to support that knowledge and ultimately work within businesses to make their processes more sustainable from a regulations/policy perspective. Many environmental departments within companies are within legal departments which is why I think it would be helpful to have a law degree. I also should say that after all this I do want to work in Toronto.

IMO that makes whether the increased cost of tuition at UofT is worth it a tough call (so, good thread/question). But this is outside my wheelhouse and I'll leave someone with a better understanding of this path to give you advice (sorry). I'm just responding since you replied to me with the info I asked about and I don't want to leave you hanging like I ignored you.

[Deadpool]

7 minutes ago, cpup630 said:

I dont really want to go down the traditional law path per se. I'm currently getting a bachelor in environmental studies where I'm learning about the environment and its intersection with businesses. I wanted to have a law degree to support that knowledge and ultimately work within businesses to make their processes more sustainable from a regulations/policy perspective. Many environmental departments within companies are within legal departments which is why I think it would be helpful to have a law degree. I also should say that after all this I do want to work in Toronto.

You would likely spend 3-5 years in Big law or a boutique firm specializing in environmental law, then go into a company or organization as in-house counsel. You would not be able to do this right out of law school in most cases. There are also environmental jobs with the government and some non-profits like Ecojustice.

If you want to go in-house sooner, then it would be beneficial to attend the cheaper school. Otherwise, you'll feel the golden handcuffs and be forced to stay in Big law longer than you want to. In-house jobs pay a lot less than Big law jobs. U of T gives a lot of needs-based funding, so you will want to calculate how much you will receive from them and compare this to the cost of attending UBC. 

You can work in Big law in Vancouver or Toronto and eventually end up as in-house counsel in Toronto. You can also land Big law in Toronto from UBC, as students from UBC, Dalhousie, and McGill land there every year. There are many corporate opportunities in every major city and law school in Canada.

If you don't want to actually practice law, then maybe consider a master's degree in your field. I've worked in-house in a regulatory environment and you do not need a law degree for these jobs. In fact, companies may even prefer hiring someone with a relevant, specialized master's degree over a corporate or environmental lawyer. They typically do not hire lawyers for policy jobs. 

[Peculiar Frond]

If you want to be in Toronto, I think the safe bet is to go to the university in Toronto. Obviously, consider tuition (after financial aid) at both schools, and other non-tuition expenses. (Plain old cost of living expenses shouldn't be ignored. Part of what makes McGill such a steal is that Montreal is cheap. I don't think you can say the same for Vancouver.) But, even if you are paying sticker at U of T, I would not just assume that the financial difference over three years is so significant that it outweighs the increased likelihood of being in the market you want, practicing the kind of law you want (business-adjacent environmental law sounds like Bay Street, initially, to me), and the correspondingly greater salary in Toronto. In any event, you should run your numbers through the aid calculator then give it a hard look. 

I wouldn't put much weight on the environmental specialization, but I don't know the field nor that curriculum. Someone else can correct me if that's a significant factor. In the absence of anyone on this forum chiming in, perhaps reach out to a lawyer who went through it?

EDIT: I agree with much of what Deadpool said.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Peculiar Frond