Clerkship AM(A)A

[Mbu1]

Based on what I've read on this forum, if 3.52 is a high B+, it makes you competitive for all trial courts including the FC. Not sure about FCA SCC ONCA BCCA etc. but it wouldn't be detrimental to apply.

[CoffeeLover200]

19 hours ago, Mbu1 said:

Based on what I've read on this forum, if 3.52 is a high B+, it makes you competitive for all trial courts including the FC. Not sure about FCA SCC ONCA BCCA etc. but it wouldn't be detrimental to apply.

That is helpful to know! Thank you

[BlockedQuebecois]

On 5/30/2022 at 4:19 PM, CoffeeLover200 said:

What kind of grades are competitive for clerkships at lower level provincial courts in Ontario and lower level federal courts? I just finished 1L at Queens with a GPA of 3.52 (Includes one B-, not sure if will be viewed as a red flag) and am interested in applying for clerkships for post-graduation. I know I am out of the running for higher level courts like the SCC and ONCA but I have not been able to find much info on what makes a competitive applicant at the lower level courts. I'd like to get a feel for what courts I may be competitive for (if any at all) in order to organize and prioritize applications this winter. Any feedback would be helpful! Thank you! 

 

@QMT20 is likely better placed to comment on Queens precisely, so you may want to write them a DM. With that said, a 3.52 is a medium B+ average at Queens, is that correct?

If so, I would expect you to be competitive for trial level clerkships in Ontario, and likely get some consideration at the FC. I know people from Osgoode clerking at the ONSC, including one at the div court, who had high-to-middling B+ averages, so it definitely isn't impossible. The FC seems to be a bit more selective, but it is likely still worth applying, particularly as demonstrated interest is so important for the federal courts. 

I would be surprised if you received interviews from the ONCA/FCA, but if you are already going through the trouble of applying to clerkships it is likely worth throwing your hat in the ring anyways. I personally wouldn't spend the time applying to the SCC in your position (although you may want to in third year, if your 2L grades are strong and you otherwise have a good profile). 

If you wanted to look out of province, what I said above regarding ONSC and ONCA would apply equally to the BCSC and BCCA. 

[QMT20]

On 5/31/2022 at 11:32 PM, Mbu1 said:

Based on what I've read on this forum, if 3.52 is a high B+, it makes you competitive for all trial courts including the FC. Not sure about FCA SCC ONCA BCCA etc. but it wouldn't be detrimental to apply.

 

2 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

@QMT20 is likely better placed to comment on Queens precisely, so you may want to write them a DM. With that said, a 3.52 is a medium B+ average at Queens, is that correct?

If so, I would expect you to be competitive for trial level clerkships in Ontario, and likely get some consideration at the FC. I know people from Osgoode clerking at the ONSC, including one at the div court, who had high-to-middling B+ averages, so it definitely isn't impossible. The FC seems to be a bit more selective, but it is likely still worth applying, particularly as demonstrated interest is so important for the federal courts. 

I would be surprised if you received interviews from the ONCA/FCA, but if you are already going through the trouble of applying to clerkships it is likely worth throwing your hat in the ring anyways. I personally wouldn't spend the time applying to the SCC in your position (although you may want to in third year, if your 2L grades are strong and you otherwise have a good profile). 

If you wanted to look out of province, what I said above regarding ONSC and ONCA would apply equally to the BCSC and BCCA. 

@BlockedQuebecois's comment is basically accurate for Queen's. There are people with 3.4 CGPAs that landed at ONSC and FC in the past but there are also people in the 3.5 range who didn't secure anything. I think you'll be competitive for ONSC. You'll be competitive for FC depending on your interests. 

You should definitely apply for the FCA as well because, as I recall, it's the same application as the FC but you just tick a box that you also want to be considered for FCA. For ONCA and the SCC you'd need a letter from the Dean. That requires a one on one meeting in the fall before you apply and I'm not sure if he'll go deep into your reasons for applying since you'll have lower grades than a lot of other applicants. 

[CoffeeLover200]

@QMT20 @BlockedQuebecois Thank you both for the responses! I figured that ONCA/SCC was out of my reach, but I will definitely throw my hat in the ring for ONSC, FC (and FCA if it is as easy as checking a box) and other lower level courts. 

[CommeCiCommeCa]

I applied to FC/FCA clerkships this cycle with a B+ GPA and managed to get some FC interviews and a couple FCA interviews, so both are definitely within the realm of possibility (depending on your demonstrated interests/CV/reference letters--as others have said.) Because the interviews at the federal courts are individually driven by the judges, there will be some judges who are more focussed on grades, and others who are looking for other things, like specific work experience in a field they hear a lot of cases in, or candidates who can easily work in both languages. In each of my interviews, the judges focussed on different aspects of my application, so what they may find interesting about your file may differ from judge to judge. So long as your grades are decent, it doesn't seem as though they will preclude you from having a shot (that is of course not to say that they are unimportant.) All this to say, based on my experience, a B+ was sufficient to get interviews, and then from there it's about building a good connection with the judge. If you have any specific questions about the application cycle, feel free to DM me and I'll be happy to do my best to answer any questions you have. Best of luck with your applications! 

[capitalttruth]

I finished 1L with a 7.97/10. I'm hoping to apply to the FC/FCA, ONCA, BCCA and perhaps the ONSC. I'm just wondering, for anyone who clerked at these courts that went to uOttawa, will I get the Dean's recommendation for ONCA and do I have shot at any of the other courts? I have extensive research experience in law school and beforehand. I'm getting published in a law journal in December.

[Turtles]

Osgoode admin hosted a clerkship session this week. 

On the topic of GPA, they said they averaged successful candidates' GPAs from previous years to help provide some data on what makes for a competitive GPA. For "SCC & ONCA", the slide read "approx. high 7s and up" which the Dean clarified as "7.5 and up" on the Osgoode 9.0 scale, and for "other courts" the slide read "high 6s and up" which the Dean read as "6.5 and up", with the exception of the Ontario Superior Court of Justice that has apparently explicitly declared they don't care about GPA. 

Obviously the admin is in the best position to comment on GPA trends for successful candidates, but doesn't 7.5 seem quite low for SCC? Cross-referencing against the grading profile for the past year, 10% of 1Ls and 17% of 2Ls had a GPA >= 7.50.

[QMT20]

49 minutes ago, Turtles said:

Osgoode admin hosted a clerkship session this week. 

On the topic of GPA, they said they averaged successful candidates' GPAs from previous years to help provide some data on what makes for a competitive GPA. For "SCC & ONCA", the slide read "approx. high 7s and up" which the Dean clarified as "7.5 and up" on the Osgoode 9.0 scale, and for "other courts" the slide read "high 6s and up" which the Dean read as "6.5 and up", with the exception of the Ontario Superior Court of Justice that has apparently explicitly declared they don't care about GPA. 

Obviously the admin is in the best position to comment on GPA trends for successful candidates, but doesn't 7.5 seem quite low for SCC? Cross-referencing against the grading profile for the past year, 10% of 1Ls and 17% of 2Ls had a GPA >= 7.50.

Someone who's gone to Osgoode will have better information about this than I do. 

However, I will say everyone I know from Osgoode who has done an appellate clerkship (ONCA, FCA, BCCA) were at least in the top 5% of their class. One of them also explicitly mentioned to me that top 5% was competitive for ONCA at Osgoode. 

[Turtles]

5 minutes ago, QMT20 said:

Someone who's gone to Osgoode will have better information about this than I do. 

However, I will say everyone I know from Osgoode who has done an appellate clerkship (ONCA, FCA, BCCA) were at least in the top 5% of their class. One of them also explicitly mentioned to me that top 5% was competitive for ONCA at Osgoode. 

Yeah, my gut reaction was that they were trying to be encouraging by significantly lowering the stated "average GPA of successful candidates" to avoid people self-selecting out, or the Dean may have been adlibbing when she clarified "high 7s as 7.5", but they are in a better position to know than me and my gut can be biased by the nameless anecdotes / the rumour mill.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Turtles

[QMT20]

1 minute ago, Turtles said:

Yeah, my gut reaction was that they were trying to be encouraging by significantly lowering the stated "average GPA of successful candidates" to avoid people self-selecting out, but they are in a better position to know than me and my gut can be biased by nameless anecdotes / the rumour mill.

I'll answer this from a different school's perspective. 

Queen's also recently did a Clerkship AMA where the career office said that Dean's List (top 10% and up) are competitive for SCC and ONCA, and for all other courts they've had successful applicants who were not dean's list.

I can only think of 2/9 who clerked at the FCA that weren't dean's list going back to around 2015, and one of those two people was a heart surgeon before law school. By comparison, 6/9 at the FCA were medalists. Similarly, out of the 4 people I know who have gotten BCCA clerkships from Queen's, 3 were medalists and the last one was a dean's lister who had multiple course prizes. All but one person I know who have gotten ONCA clerkships from Queen's have been medalists. 

From my perspective, CDOs do understate the grade requirements for appellate clerkships. Grades aren't everything and it's possible to make up for lower law school grades with other experiences. For courts that allow you to apply after law school, many people clerk after graduate studies or after completing trial clerkships which help their applications. However, if you're applying straight from law school, it's rare for experiences to outweigh grades and I would think 17%, and even 10% for most schools, is a stretch for appellate clerkships. 

[olawg]

Does anyone know if, as a 3L, you can apply to the SCC without the Dean's recommendation letter? Or will the SCC basically disregard your application? I applied for the Dean's recommendation with an 8.5 on a 10 scale and wasn't offered an interview for the letter. The rest of my application was, subjectively, strong as well. Trying to gauge my options. 

[notnotadog]

On 11/3/2022 at 4:24 PM, OttLawGuy said:

Does anyone know if, as a 3L, you can apply to the SCC without the Dean's recommendation letter? Or will the SCC basically disregard your application? I applied for the Dean's recommendation with an 8.5 on a 10 scale and wasn't offered an interview for the letter. The rest of my application was, subjectively, strong as well. Trying to gauge my options. 

My understanding from my own school's CDO is that it's highly unlikely as a 3L without the Dean's letter, but as an alum without the letter you still have a shot. 

[capitalttruth]

Had a question. Does anyone know if someone has completed a trial-level clerkship at the ONSC and then has gone on to complete an appellate clerkship at either the FCA, ONCA, or the SCC? 

Edited November 7, 2022 by capitalttruth

[Mbu1]

26 minutes ago, capitalttruth said:

Had a question. Does anyone know if someone has completed a trial-level clerkship at the ONSC and then has gone on to complete an appellate clerkship at either the FCA, ONCA, or the SCC? 

First instance to second instance or SCC is very common. What I seldom see is someone who clerked say at the SCC or provincial CofA following up with a trial level clerkship. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Mbu1

[QMT20]

11 minutes ago, Mbu1 said:

First instance to second instance or SCC is very common. What I seldom see is someone who clerked say at the SCC or provincial CofA following up with a trial level clerkship. 

Part of this is probably because, traditionally, the only trial level court you could clerk at after clerking somewhere else was the FC. When I was in law school (which was only a few years ago), ONSC only took applications from 2Ls and BCSC required you to clerk before you were called. 

I am aware of people clerking at the ONSC and then the FC as a second clerkship. 

But you are correct that doing a first clerkship at a trial court and then a second clerkship at an appellate court is pretty common. There are a few people who go from a trial clerkship straight to the SCC every year as well, although the majority do an appellate clerkship before the SCC. 

[Mbu1]

27 minutes ago, QMT20 said:

Part of this is probably because, traditionally, the only trial level court you could clerk at after clerking somewhere else was the FC. When I was in law school (which was only a few years ago), ONSC only took applications from 2Ls and BCSC required you to clerk before you were called. 

I am aware of people clerking at the ONSC and then the FC as a second clerkship. 

But you are correct that doing a first clerkship at a trial court and then a second clerkship at an appellate court is pretty common. There are a few people who go from a trial clerkship straight to the SCC every year as well, although the majority do an appellate clerkship before the SCC. 

I have also seen a few people clerk at two provincial courts of appeal. How is that perceived? Seems redundant. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Mbu1

[QMT20]

2 minutes ago, Mbu1 said:

I have also seen a few people clerk at two provincial courts of appeal. How is that perceived? Seems redundant. 

I'm not an employer or an experienced lawyer so I can't say how its perceived. Some people really love clerking though, and I say more power to them. 

[HarryCrane]

Does anyone who’s interviewed for a clerkship or clerked have any insight into what questions could be asked about the writing sample? I’m obviously going to know my writing sample inside and out but I’m just trying to get a sense of what types of questions are usually asked. Interview is for a Court of Appeal. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by HarryCrane
Added detail

[BlockedQuebecois]

1 hour ago, HarryCrane said:

Does anyone who’s interviewed for a clerkship or clerked have any insight into what questions could be asked about the writing sample? I’m obviously going to know my writing sample inside and out but I’m just trying to get a sense of what types of questions are usually asked. Interview is for a Court of Appeal. 

Others may have had different reactions, but nobody at any court asked me about my writing sample. Unless it says something particularly noteworthy or catches someone’s attention for some other reason, I suspect they’re largely used to filter out poor writers pre-interview. 

[notnotadog]

11 hours ago, HarryCrane said:

Does anyone who’s interviewed for a clerkship or clerked have any insight into what questions could be asked about the writing sample? I’m obviously going to know my writing sample inside and out but I’m just trying to get a sense of what types of questions are usually asked. Interview is for a Court of Appeal. 

I was asked in both an SCC interview and an appellate clerkship interview to talk about my writing sample - essentially to explain my argument. Then I went back and forth a bit with the judges who asked questions. It didn't happen in all interviews but it certainly did happen. 

Edit: I'll add that my writing sample was topical - it was about a case that was being heard at the SCC shortly after my interview so judges may have been more keen to discuss it than if it were on a different topic.

Edited December 11, 2022 by notnotadog

[CommeCiCommeCa]

I also had a few judges ask me about one of my writing samples that had to do with a specific area of jurisdiction of the Court that some of the judges had recently heard a case in. The judges mostly asked me about certain aspects of my argument and how what I had argued might relate to the recent judgment they had written on this topic. Luckily I had read the judgment, but all that to say, if your paper is topical to the jurisdiction of the Court, it might be worthwhile to take a look and see if there are any recent judgments related to what you wrote about that have come out of the Court. 

My other writing sample was a little less related to the Court's jurisdiction and didn't come up in any interviews. So, similarly to what @notnotadog said, I think that the judges were more keen to bring up the writing sample due to its relevance to their recent decision, and less for the purposes of generally discussing every candidate's writing sample. 

Best of luck with your interview!

[multilingualcat]

How many bilingual positions are there at the Federal Court? When judges look for bilingual clerks, are they looking for candidates that are fluently bilingual and who can draft memos in both languages or are they only looking for passive bilingualism? Also, is French really a major advantage or just a nice-to-have?

[capitalttruth]

I'm applying to the FC, FCA, ONSC, and ONCA this year. I will be articling for the DOJ next year, but I hope to complete a clerkship after articling completes. I have an A- (8.3/10) cGPA. I also have a paper published in a law review journal, mooting experience, and experience working for MAG. I also have been working on my French, and will be doing French courses during my articling term.

I received an interview at the FC last year, so I feel my chances are okay again this year. What do you feel my chances are for ONSC, ONCA, and FCA? 

Edited January 19 by capitalttruth

[BlockedQuebecois]

On 1/18/2024 at 7:32 PM, multilingualcat said:

How many bilingual positions are there at the Federal Court? When judges look for bilingual clerks, are they looking for candidates that are fluently bilingual and who can draft memos in both languages or are they only looking for passive bilingualism? Also, is French really a major advantage or just a nice-to-have?

There are probably others on the forum who can better answer this question (including @FCA Clerkship).

With that said, my understanding is that recruitment at the FCA and FC is driven by each individual judge, so I doubt there is a set number of "bilingual positions". I suspect that judges looking for bilingual candidates are generally looking for candidates who are fluently bilingual, and I am fairly certain that being bilingual is a major advantage (although obviously unilingual clerks do get hired). 

On 1/19/2024 at 11:03 PM, capitalttruth said:

I'm applying to the FC, FCA, ONSC, and ONCA this year. I will be articling for the DOJ next year, but I hope to complete a clerkship after articling completes. I have an A- (8.3/10) cGPA. I also have a paper published in a law review journal, mooting experience, and experience working for MAG. I also have been working on my French, and will be doing French courses during my articling term.

I received an interview at the FC last year, so I feel my chances are okay again this year. What do you feel my chances are for ONSC, ONCA, and FCA? 

Has the ONSC gotten rid of its requirement that you clerk during articles?

I would think that an A- average as a third-year applicant is quite easily competitive for the FC and ONSC. It's more borderline for the ONCA, but I would think that it's at least competitive for interviews.