Has anyone ever gotten rejected from single but accepted to Dual?

[LawstudentinCanada]

Because I got rejected for single but still referred adcomm for dual 

[CleanHands]

I would venture a guess that most dual students were rejected from single...

[luckycharm]

1 hour ago, CleanHands said:

I would venture a guess that most dual students were rejected from single...

I have seen some who were accepted to both (can't remember which year)

[LawstudentinCanada]

1 hour ago, CleanHands said:

I would venture a guess that most dual students were rejected from single...

really? It was so weird, I got waitlisted for single then rejected and now im waiting on dual. I feel really nervous 

[Diplock]

I'm really not sure what the basis of confusion here is. Without being judgmental about either program, the dual program at Windsor is generally considered to be the less desirable of the two, due to added cost and the additional year required to complete an American JD at a 4th tier school that most people would recommend anyone avoid. So it isn't strange to imagine that someone could be accepted to both the single and the dual program, assuming they are a stronger candidate. It also isn't strange to see someone rejected from the single and accepted at the dual. The only thing that would be strange is seeing someone rejected by the dual and accepted at the single.

Again, not trying to be mean about it. Any Canadian law school can be the foundation of a successful career in Canada, and is a better option by far than any foreign school catering to students who can't get into a domestic program. But of the domestic options, Windsor dual reliably has some of the lowest entry standards in Canada. It was the lowest bar none before the introduction of newer schools such as Lakehead, Thompson Rivers, and Ryerson. I don't know off-hand how they stack up against one another now, and newer schools tend to be cagey about releasing their numbers. I'm pretty sure Windsor carves out the entry standards for the single vs. the dual mainly just to avoid dragging down their single numbers. They probably don't enjoy making the dual look bad, but it's better than making the whole school look somewhat bad.

Anyway. Just answering at length because this conventional wisdom really needs to be maintained and shared. Windsor will try to market the dual like it's something special. Oh - you're getting two degrees and you can somehow work in cross-border international something! But in reality, you're paying through the nose for an American degree no one should pay for anyway, and for the privilege of taking an extra year to get even the Windsor degree, which is the only one worth having.

Regardless, good luck.

[samk554]

2 hours ago, Diplock said:

I'm really not sure what the basis of confusion here is. Without being judgmental about either program, the dual program at Windsor is generally considered to be the less desirable of the two, due to added cost and the additional year required to complete an American JD at a 4th tier school that most people would recommend anyone avoid. So it isn't strange to imagine that someone could be accepted to both the single and the dual program, assuming they are a stronger candidate. It also isn't strange to see someone rejected from the single and accepted at the dual. The only thing that would be strange is seeing someone rejected by the dual and accepted at the single.

Again, not trying to be mean about it. Any Canadian law school can be the foundation of a successful career in Canada, and is a better option by far than any foreign school catering to students who can't get into a domestic program. But of the domestic options, Windsor dual reliably has some of the lowest entry standards in Canada. It was the lowest bar none before the introduction of newer schools such as Lakehead, Thompson Rivers, and Ryerson. I don't know off-hand how they stack up against one another now, and newer schools tend to be cagey about releasing their numbers. I'm pretty sure Windsor carves out the entry standards for the single vs. the dual mainly just to avoid dragging down their single numbers. They probably don't enjoy making the dual look bad, but it's better than making the whole school look somewhat bad.

Anyway. Just answering at length because this conventional wisdom really needs to be maintained and shared. Windsor will try to market the dual like it's something special. Oh - you're getting two degrees and you can somehow work in cross-border international something! But in reality, you're paying through the nose for an American degree no one should pay for anyway, and for the privilege of taking an extra year to get even the Windsor degree, which is the only one worth having.

Regardless, good luck.

The Dual program is not an extra year, you graduate the same time as Single JDs do. In addition, in recent years many dual students have landed Bay St positions through the OCI process.

[historicaladvantage]

6 hours ago, Diplock said:

I'm really not sure what the basis of confusion here is. Without being judgmental about either program, the dual program at Windsor is generally considered to be the less desirable of the two, due to added cost and the additional year required to complete an American JD at a 4th tier school that most people would recommend anyone avoid. So it isn't strange to imagine that someone could be accepted to both the single and the dual program, assuming they are a stronger candidate. It also isn't strange to see someone rejected from the single and accepted at the dual. The only thing that would be strange is seeing someone rejected by the dual and accepted at the single.

Again, not trying to be mean about it. Any Canadian law school can be the foundation of a successful career in Canada, and is a better option by far than any foreign school catering to students who can't get into a domestic program. But of the domestic options, Windsor dual reliably has some of the lowest entry standards in Canada. It was the lowest bar none before the introduction of newer schools such as Lakehead, Thompson Rivers, and Ryerson. I don't know off-hand how they stack up against one another now, and newer schools tend to be cagey about releasing their numbers. I'm pretty sure Windsor carves out the entry standards for the single vs. the dual mainly just to avoid dragging down their single numbers. They probably don't enjoy making the dual look bad, but it's better than making the whole school look somewhat bad.

Anyway. Just answering at length because this conventional wisdom really needs to be maintained and shared. Windsor will try to market the dual like it's something special. Oh - you're getting two degrees and you can somehow work in cross-border international something! But in reality, you're paying through the nose for an American degree no one should pay for anyway, and for the privilege of taking an extra year to get even the Windsor degree, which is the only one worth having.

Regardless, good luck.

This and also the school you go to in the US matters more than Canada. Most people I know from Windsor have done quite well in Canada. It is definitely an uphill battle getting employed in Big Law coming out of Windsor though. If you tried to get employed with the dual JD in Michigan, all I can say is good luck. 

To put it more clearly: Windsor for Canadian jobs (whether dual or single degree) is decent, but not great; for American jobs, good luck to you. 

Edited June 15, 2021 by historicaladvantage

[nestlepurelife]

1 hour ago, historicaladvantage said:

This and also the school you go to in the US matters more than Canada. Most people I know from Windsor have done quite well in Canada. It is definitely an uphill battle getting employed in Big Law coming out of Windsor though. If you tried to get employed with the dual JD in Michigan, all I can say is good luck. 

To put it more clearly: Windsor for Canadian jobs (whether dual or single degree) is decent, but not great; for American jobs, good luck to you. 

I disagree that with the UDM degree you will have a difficult time finding Big Law employment in Michigan (provided you're academically competitive). UDM alumni regularly place in large full service firms (Miller Canfield, Dickinson Wright, etc), and state judiciary. This is not to say it is not an uphill battle being a UDM graduate - you're still disadvantaged relative to your University of Michigan or Wayne State peers, but it's no more of a disadvantage a Windsor alumni has compared to an Osgoode alumni seeking a Big Law job in ON.

The enormous rank disadvantage arises when you venture out of MI into NYC, LA, and other very large US legal markets. In those situations, unless you've graduated summa cum laude you're very unlikely to be a successful candidate.

With this said I am in no way advocating for the Dual JD program..

[LMP]

24 minutes ago, nestlepurelife said:

I disagree that with the UDM degree you will have a difficult time finding Big Law employment in Michigan (provided you're academically competitive). UDM alumni regularly place in large full service firms (Miller Canfield, Dickinson Wright, etc), and state judiciary. This is not to say it is not an uphill battle being a UDM graduate - you're still disadvantaged relative to your University of Michigan or Wayne State peers, but it's no more of a disadvantage a Windsor alumni has compared to an Osgoode alumni seeking a Big Law job in ON.

The enormous rank disadvantage arises when you venture out of MI into NYC, LA, and other very large US legal markets. In those situations, unless you've graduated summa cum laude you're very unlikely to be a successful candidate.

With this said I am in no way advocating for the Dual JD program..

I'm sure the top students manage ok, but the average private sector salary of UDM grads is like 58k. And when you are paying $40000 a year for the dual degree, that seems like a bum deal. 

[historicaladvantage]

23 hours ago, nestlepurelife said:

I disagree that with the UDM degree you will have a difficult time finding Big Law employment in Michigan (provided you're academically competitive). UDM alumni regularly place in large full service firms (Miller Canfield, Dickinson Wright, etc), and state judiciary. This is not to say it is not an uphill battle being a UDM graduate - you're still disadvantaged relative to your University of Michigan or Wayne State peers, but it's no more of a disadvantage a Windsor alumni has compared to an Osgoode alumni seeking a Big Law job in ON.

The enormous rank disadvantage arises when you venture out of MI into NYC, LA, and other very large US legal markets. In those situations, unless you've graduated summa cum laude you're very unlikely to be a successful candidate.

With this said I am in no way advocating for the Dual JD program..

You’re right, I missed a beat; I had thought it was that all American jobs, including Michigan, were next to impossible to get out of the dual JD. I stand corrected. I agree though if you plan on working anywhere outside of Michigan, grab a lottery ticket on your way to classes

[Whist]

Not sure if this is helpful, but I have an American friend whose parent is a judge in Michigan. I asked and they said they've never met a lawyer who had a Canadian JD or a dual working there.

[rjs]

Same boat rejected for single but still referred to the AdComm for dual. Still waiting on decisions for a few schools which is frustrating, tell me one way or another so I can mentally prepare for more LSAT torture!

[wallsunflower]

Yes, it’s possible. The two programs have separate admissions processes. 

[LawstudentinCanada]

On 6/18/2021 at 2:46 PM, rjs said:

Same boat rejected for single but still referred to the AdComm for dual. Still waiting on decisions for a few schools which is frustrating, tell me one way or another so I can mentally prepare for more LSAT torture!

Omg honestly!!! 

[QueensDenning]

On 6/15/2021 at 10:17 AM, Diplock said:

I'm really not sure what the basis of confusion here is. Without being judgmental about either program, the dual program at Windsor is generally considered to be the less desirable of the two, due to added cost and the additional year required to complete an American JD at a 4th tier school that most people would recommend anyone avoid. So it isn't strange to imagine that someone could be accepted to both the single and the dual program, assuming they are a stronger candidate. It also isn't strange to see someone rejected from the single and accepted at the dual. The only thing that would be strange is seeing someone rejected by the dual and accepted at the single.

Again, not trying to be mean about it. Any Canadian law school can be the foundation of a successful career in Canada, and is a better option by far than any foreign school catering to students who can't get into a domestic program. But of the domestic options, Windsor dual reliably has some of the lowest entry standards in Canada. It was the lowest bar none before the introduction of newer schools such as Lakehead, Thompson Rivers, and Ryerson. I don't know off-hand how they stack up against one another now, and newer schools tend to be cagey about releasing their numbers. I'm pretty sure Windsor carves out the entry standards for the single vs. the dual mainly just to avoid dragging down their single numbers. They probably don't enjoy making the dual look bad, but it's better than making the whole school look somewhat bad.

Anyway. Just answering at length because this conventional wisdom really needs to be maintained and shared. Windsor will try to market the dual like it's something special. Oh - you're getting two degrees and you can somehow work in cross-border international something! But in reality, you're paying through the nose for an American degree no one should pay for anyway, and for the privilege of taking an extra year to get even the Windsor degree, which is the only one worth having.

Regardless, good luck.

What's your take on Ryerson?