Are firms ranked?

[VitalGiraffe]

Title says it all.

Are there any legitimate rankings of big firms? As in, a numbered list rather than just firms that are considered 'top tier' vs 'middle tier' vs 'lower tier'. Is that even a thing? I know absolutely nothing about this lol.

[GGrievous]

Yes, they are ranked: law firm rankings

[HammurabiTime]

There are a variety of ranking services with varying claims to legitimacy. I don't think any of them do a ranking of firms overall, they are broken down by different practice areas.

[VitalGiraffe]

1 hour ago, HammurabiTime said:

There are a variety of ranking services with varying claims to legitimacy. I don't think any of them do a ranking of firms overall, they are broken down by different practice areas.

I see. So how do people pick firms? Do most people only land 1 offer so they don't really have options to begin with? Or do they pick based on the rankings of the thing they hope to do? Or is it just based on the culture of the firm/being a good fit?

[LMP]

The rankings are as follows: 

Tier 1 

Firm that hires me 

Tier 2 

Firms that give me offers 

Tier 3 

Firms that interview me 

Tier 4 

Firms that reject me 

[HammurabiTime]

32 minutes ago, VitalGiraffe said:

I see. So how do people pick firms? Do most people only land 1 offer so they don't really have options to begin with? Or do they pick based on the rankings of the thing they hope to do? Or is it just based on the culture of the firm/being a good fit?

This is an individualized thing and your premise is a bit off, so I'll explain why I think that. Your question assumes people are even in a position to be able to target 'the best' firms by the time they make this choice. Like I alluded to above, the 'best' bankruptcy and insolvency firm is not necessarily the 'best' professional liability firm is not necessarily the 'best' intellectual property litigation firm. Some practice area's top lawyers practice largely out of full service firms, others largely out of boutique firms, and some a mix of the two. Some firms are well ranked over many practice areas and would give you options to choose from if you were focused on the 'best', but there are still pretty significant differences in practice group sizes, etc. that may make it more or less difficult to get hired into your chosen practice group.

I'm assuming you're mostly asking about OCI positions given you posted this in the corporate section which narrows it but only slightly. Most people have no idea what they want to do when they're in law school and make that determination when they're articling or maybe even later. People change their minds constantly and I would say maybe around 10% of the people I went to school with and knew ended up doing what they said they wanted to at the start of 1L. With respect to figuring out what you actually want to do, some people figure that out during summer rotations. Lots of people I knew who were dead set on being litigators found solicitor's work more appealing and vice versa. This is yet another reason that I think the idea of targeting the 'best' firm

With that in mind, many people make this decision by the time you've completed less than half your law degree. From what I could surmise, people who had multiple options largely chose based on the interview experience. This makes sense. Would you take a marginal increase in 'prestige' if it meant working with people you didn't really get along with versus working at a still well regarded firm with people you get on well with? I think most people would choose the better work environment.

So people end up picking, I think largely, through a combination of pay (not all OCI firms pay the same) and what they thought of the place during the interview process. Many people don't have a choice since they only get one offer and effectively have the choice made for them until they can try to lateral to a different firm that may practice the area of law they are more interested in.

Edited January 23, 2022 by HammurabiTime
Typo.

[VitalGiraffe]

6 minutes ago, HammurabiTime said:

This is yet another reason that I think the idea of targeting the 'best' firm

Thanks for the response. I'm curious to hear the end of this thought though.

[HammurabiTime]

4 minutes ago, VitalGiraffe said:

Thanks for the response. I'm curious to hear the end of this thought though.

Ah it seems my after the fact editing chopped that thought up. 

I think the idea of targeting the best firm as a student is not the ideal way to think about the job hunt for people who are students. There are (or ought to be) a whole host of considerations going into how you pick an employer. I think for most people, the perception that a particular firm is the 'best' will provide precious little solace if, once they get a job there, they hate their work, their colleagues, and feel like they need to bill over 2200 hours a year because of their astronomical debt 

[99problems]

3 hours ago, LMP said:

The rankings are as follows: 

Tier 1 

Firm that hires me 

Tier 2 

Firms that give me offers 

Tier 3 

Firms that interview me 

Tier 4 

Firms that reject me 

While this may seems like a funny post, it is accurate. 

 

3 hours ago, VitalGiraffe said:

Or do they pick based on the rankings of the thing they hope to do? Or is it just based on the culture of the firm/being a good fit?

People usually do not receive many offers to choose from (especially through the OCIs). And when they are fortunate enough to receive more than one offer, the choice would probably depend on salary, benefits, maybe culture of the firm etc.

For what it is worth, the notion of prestige doesn't, arguably, exist even in the context of law schools at least not among law society (that said, there is consensus on a couple of Ontario schools being tier 2). Schools surely boast about their achievements and qualities of studies, but they are marketing tools. How would they justify high tuitions otherwise?  

Edited January 24, 2022 by not not a lawyer

[mistertubby]

wildeboer dellelce is the most prestigious firm

[Phaedrus]

11 minutes ago, mistertubby said:

wildeboer dellelce is the most prestigious firm

Actually, it's these guys. 

[undertheletter]

Surely, the best and most prestigious firm is Morgans. It is certainly the most selective.

[Big Pecker]

Still upset about Morgans not giving me an offer.

[Jaggers]

No one wants to work at that dustbag firm anymore.

[VitalGiraffe]

6 hours ago, mistertubby said:

wildeboer dellelce is the most prestigious firm

[Mr. Deeds]

1. Dentons 

2.Dentons 

The rest don’t really matter. Am I right @BlockedQuebecois? 

[Jaggers]

You forgot Morgans, Heenan Blaikie and Goodman & Carr.