Bond University!

[Lilibet]

Heyall,

 

i wanted to get some insights from people who graduated from Bond and moved back to Canada for articling and work! Is it really that difficult to find articling with a Bond degree… also how hard is it to pass the NCA exams?

thanks

[Diplock]

If I wasn't here already, I would fully believe this topic was created just to bait me into registering.

[Avatar Aang]

36 minutes ago, Lilibet said:

Heyall,

 

i wanted to get some insights from people who graduated from Bond and moved back to Canada for articling and work! Is it really that difficult to find articling with a Bond degree… also how hard is it to pass the NCA exams?

thanks

It's not difficult if you have connections in the legal market and/or are willing to work for no pay or close to minimum wage. There are many employers out there that take advantage of law students and foreign trained lawyers and will not provide you with a good experience overall. For the best legal positions, you are competing with Canadian law school grads who employers generally favour over foreign students. 

If you have connections to a small town or city where you have lived all your life, and can network with employers in your area, then it makes it easier for you to find a job. If you have no networks or connections, then it makes it more difficult to land a decent position. Some doors will also be closed to you, or very difficult to break into, such as Big law, government, top boutiques, legal aid, and public interest jobs. Some employers will also have their own prejudices against foreign education that is not from Oxbridge and US T-6 law schools, and will not give your application a second look once they see your school name, even if you performed well in your class and have interesting experience. 

The NCA exams take time and money, but are not particularly difficult to pass. You can also do the LLM at  U of T, Osgoode, UBC, etc. which will allow you to not have to complete all the exams, but this is also more time and money, and will not generally help you in the job market either. 

In conclusion, try your hardest to get into a Canadian law school if you want to practice law in Canada - even if you have to reapply again and again. In the long run, this is better for your future than going abroad. If you still can't get into a Canadian law school, ask yourself whether this is the only career path available for you or if there are any alternative options that appeal to you. You can do a master's degree and go into public policy or law enforcement, consulting, paralegal, etc. Going to Bond or another foreign law school that is not as recognized by Canadian legal employers should be your LAST RESORT once you have exhausted all options. Good luck in your decision. 

[Deepbluee]

Of course going to a Canadian school would be ideal and a first choice.  But to spend potentially years of reapplying if you have your mind set on becoming a lawyer is not a reality for many people.  Bond and many Universities overseas can be a great alternative!  For many students this can be a life changing period of their lives.. and actually has a lot of pros.  And yes.. You DO have to work harder when you come back to Canada essentially to compete with those Canadian graduates who have already worked towards building a network here. 

NCA`s are also not that tough, but do require study and time.  Bond and a few other foreign law schools offer Canadian law courses which really do prep you nicely for the exams.  So... yes if you have exhausted your options in Canada, Bond is a great alternative.  A bit of advice... IF you do go law school outside of Canada - do you best to get involved on your campus and student legal clinics... finish with honours or distinctions.. and if you get the chance to come home during breaks etc... reach out to law firms.  Do your best to build your network in Canada if you are set to return home to practice.   

Hope this helps!

[meandtheboys]

10 minutes ago, Deepbluee said:

But to spend potentially years of reapplying if you have your mind set on becoming a lawyer is not a reality for many people.  Bond and many Universities overseas can be a great alternative!

What do you mean by not a reality?  So taking more classes or studying to retake the LSAT while working isn't a reality but racking up an inordinate amount of debt for living and going to school overseas and coming back with the stigma attached to a foreign LLB is a reality?

[Deepbluee]

17 minutes ago, meandtheboys said:

What do you mean by not a reality?  So taking more classes or studying to retake the LSAT while working isn't a reality but racking up an inordinate amount of debt for living and going to school overseas and coming back with the stigma attached to a foreign LLB is a reality?

I am replying to what was asked which is if it is difficult to find articling and whether the NCAs are hard..

I know also of graduates from Canadian law school who find it difficult to secure articles... so this is not confined solely to those go to law school outside of Canada.

Everyone has different circumstances.. Sure if you want to stay back and take more classes (which costs $) or re-study and that works for you great!.  But if it isn't and you are able to.. then going overseas can be a fine option.  If you are a well-rounded student and make the most of your time ..even in a foreign law school... you will look attractive to firms here as well.  You can overcome this `stigma`.

 

[CleanHands]

1 minute ago, Deepbluee said:

I know also of graduates from Canadian law school who find it difficult to secure articles... so this is not confined solely to those go to law school outside of Canada.

There's an LSAT question here somewhere...

[123]

40 minutes ago, Deepbluee said:

So... yes if you have exhausted your options in Canada, Bond is a great alternative.

"Great" oversells it. It's an alternative. We can argue about whether it's a viable, worthwhile alternative in terms of finances, articling options, and future competency. But regardless of where we land in this thread, I wouldn't characterize Bond as a great way to become a Canadian lawyer. 

[QueensDenning]

52 minutes ago, Deepbluee said:

I am replying to what was asked which is if it is difficult to find articling and whether the NCAs are hard..

I know also of graduates from Canadian law school who find it difficult to secure articles... so this is not confined solely to those go to law school outside of Canada.

Everyone has different circumstances.. Sure if you want to stay back and take more classes (which costs $) or re-study and that works for you great!.  But if it isn't and you are able to.. then going overseas can be a fine option.  If you are a well-rounded student and make the most of your time ..even in a foreign law school... you will look attractive to firms here as well.  You can overcome this `stigma`.

 

You still seem to be overselling it... also, what "different circumstances" were you referring to? Last time I checked, Bond isn't a school designed to cater to applicants lacking significant financial resources. I know lots of people from my undergrad who chose to go to Bond, saving $ was not a consideration. It is almost certainly cheaper to stay back and take classes compared to (1) flights (to and from?) Aus multiple times a year, (2) living expenses in Australia (some of the highest in the world) and (3) expensive Bond tuition. 

Also, yes there are graduates from Canadian law schools who find it difficult to secure articles, but there are (many many) more who find it difficult coming from an international school. 

 

[Ryn]

1 hour ago, Deepbluee said:

But if it isn't and you are able to.. then going overseas can be a fine option.

Uhh, it's not a fine option. I would say that it's an absolute last resort if and only if you are absolutely desperate to become a lawyer and cost (including opportunity cost) is no object. For the vast majority of people it is a terrible option.

The only time I can see where it may be a good option is (1) if you have money and will not take on debt going to a foreign school; (2) you will have an articling job waiting for you upon your return (e.g., through family or other personal connections). Then maybe it's a good choice, assuming all your other options have been exhausted.

Otherwise it's way too expensive and the stigma surrounding foreign-trained lawyers is big enough to where most people will spend a lot of time finding articling jobs or securing an associate position after being called.

Lastly, any claim that the process is faster is completely untrue. Yes, you can usually get a foreign LLB in 2 years instead of a JD in 3, but you will likely spend a year after you return getting your NCA qualification. Then you have to find an articling gig in a place you have absolutely no network.

I recommend a hard pass to OP and that they keep trying Canadian law schools.

Edited June 17, 2021 by Ryn

[LMP]

57 minutes ago, Deepbluee said:

 

I know also of graduates from Canadian law school who find it difficult to secure articles... so this is not confined solely to those go to law school outside of Canada.

 

 

I know some people who have never smoked and yet got lung cancer. So warning would be smokers about cancer risks is foolish. Right? 

[QueensDenning]

5 minutes ago, LMP said:

I know some people who have never smoked and yet got lung cancer. So warning would be smokers about cancer risks is foolish. Right? 

Can a Bond student identify the logical fallacy in this argument?

(I joke, I joke)

[Toad]

1 hour ago, Deepbluee said:

 

I know also of graduates from Canadian law school who find it difficult to secure articles... so this is not confined solely to those go to law school outside of Canada.

 

 

Difficulty finding articles is not confined solely to those going to law school outside of Canada, but it is still much harder for foreign graduates to find articles. Especially when it is obvious that the person only went overseas because they could not get into a domestic school.

A large number of lawyers are likely to not consider Bond graduates for articles at all. Even when a lawyer is willing to interview a Bond graduate, the Bond graduate will still be at a competitive disadvantage relative to students with Canadian JDs who are also being interviewed. Then there is the issue of Bond graduates not being able to effectively develop connections within the Canadian legal market during their time in law school. This is a huge disadvantage because one of the most common ways people find articling positions is through leveraging their connections.

You also mentioned earlier that people should try to get honours or distinction. This is true, but nobody should attend any law school with the assumption that they will be near the top of their class. A person making the decision to attend Bond should do so under the assumption that there is a strong chance they will be approximately average. Even if a person is able to get honours or distinction it is not likely to put them on equal footing with Canadian law school graduates because the quality of student at schools like Bond are considered to be much lower than Canadian schools. To put things into perspective, the students with the best entrance stats at Bond still tend to have inferior stats to people getting accepted near the end of the cycle at Canada's least competitive law schools.

Edited June 17, 2021 by Toad