UBC vs Osgoode

[Disbarred]

UBC’s  numbers are much lower than you guys think, I got them from the career office a couple years ago. Let me find them

Edited June 15, 2021 by Disbarred

[historicaladvantage]

2 minutes ago, Avatar Aang said:

That's insane. Probably the highest I've seen. 

It was 36% for 2021, 35% in 2020, and 34% in 2019. 

[LMP]

4 minutes ago, jcfm said:

I believe U of T is 48%. 
 

You are correct, I missread the numbers. Thanks for the correction. 

 

3 minutes ago, Avatar Aang said:

Definitely not more than 35%. It's consistently in the 25-33% range for the last couple of years AND OCI placement rates are not the same as Big law placement rates. Many of the employers participating in OCIs and articling recruitment are not Big law employers. 

In fact, most Big law employers do not even participate in the articling recruit. 

I went back 4 or so years and the numbers seemed pretty similar. 

As for how that translates into articles, I'll defer to the wisdom of others as I don't know very much about it. 

My point being the actual, variable data we have avalible doesn't really jive with with your points. Or at least my understanding of your comments. Either way hopefully this conversation will provide a nuanced view with multiple view points for future readers, which is always a good thing.

 

[Psychometronic]

OP's status is "law student," so it's not clear why they're asking this question now.

Many Vancouverites aren't interested in the Ontario market, so this is important to consider wrt to numbers in the Toronto recruit.

Also, UBC doesn't seem to place well at the SCC, likely due to lack of French proficiency.

UBC students do quite well on other factors otherwise.

The difference in tuition is not to sniff at unless money is no object.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Psychometronic

[Disbarred]

2 minutes ago, Disbarred said:

UBC’s  numbers are much lower than you guys think, I got them from the career office a couple years ago. Let me find them

In the year I asked it was for 2018 or 2019, UBC placed 59 students through Vancouver OCIs out of 158 students who applied.

This is lower than Osgoode’s Toronto numbers 

that is about 30% of the total class 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Disbarred

[ZineZ]

4 minutes ago, Avatar Aang said:

That's insane. Probably the highest I've seen. 

It's more typical than it looks. Oz has hovered around ~100 students/year since 2017 or so. 

[historicaladvantage]

1 minute ago, Disbarred said:

In the year I asked it was for 2018 or 2019, UBC placed 59 students through Vancouver OCIs out of 158 students who applied.

This is lower than Osgoode’s Toronto numbers 

that is about 30% of the total class 

Is this explained by UVIC and TRU? 

[Disbarred]

2 minutes ago, historicaladvantage said:

Is this explained by UVIC and TRU? 

What do you mean? Toronto has even more schools applying. 
 

I have no information from those schools because I’m from Ontario and only applied to UBC 

[BlockedQuebecois]

2 minutes ago, historicaladvantage said:

Is this explained by UVIC and TRU? 

No, it’s explained by the vastly smaller 2L recruit (which is explained by the vastly smaller legal market). In any given year there are only ~160 jobs available in the Vancouver 2L recruit. This year, there were 158. Compare that to the 478 in Toronto. 

[historicaladvantage]

Just now, Disbarred said:

What do you mean? Toronto has even more schools applying. 
 

I have no information from those schools because I’m from Ontario and only applied to UBC 

 I just looked at the stats and there were 18 people hired from UVIC and 15 people from TRU compared to 56 from UBC for the 2021 Vancouver recruit. Oddly enough, 9 people were hired from Ottawa, 8 from Alberta, 7 from Dalhousie, and 6 from Calgary. The remaining schools are negligible amounts. So UBC appears to place at a high percentage in the VAN recruit in comparison to other schools, but a comparatively low proportion of their own class gets a job (around 30%). 

[QMT20]

8 minutes ago, historicaladvantage said:

Is this explained by UVIC and TRU? 

Edited this post because I realized @BlockedQuebecois beat me to the punch. But I'll leave these links here for anyone who wants to compare.

http://ultravires.ca/2021/05/vancouver-2021-2l-summer-recruitment-numbers/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=vancouver-2021-2l-summer-recruitment-numbers

https://issuu.com/ultravires/docs/ultra_vires_-_vol_22_iss_6_-_apr_7

Edited June 15, 2021 by QMT20
Repetitive

[historicaladvantage]

1 minute ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

No, it’s explained by the vastly smaller 2L recruit (which is explained by the vastly smaller legal market). In any given year there are only ~160 jobs available in the Vancouver 2L recruit. This year, there were 158. Compare that to the 478 in Toronto. 

Thanks for pointing this out -- this would explain why UBC places well in comparison to other schools in the Vancouver recruit, but nonetheless a lower proportion of their class (compared to Toronto) gets a job in that same recruit.

[ZineZ]

As a general note - I find these comparisons to be rather...useless when we're talking about Bay/SCC/Government. The schools are all well known on the East Coast and "prestige" matters more to applicants/students than it does recruiters. 

I'm going to point to @Avatar Aang's point again generally, because I think it's getting lost in the fray.  

55 minutes ago, Avatar Aang said:

Your ability to secure an appellate/SCC clerkship, Big law, and government will largely depend on your class standing more than anything else. 

OP - you're not going to be "disadvantaged" by choosing either school. Your grades/overall application package is what will matter here. I'd encourage you to focus on your broader goals with regards to school culture/geographic location when making your decision. 

[Disbarred]

As an aside point if we assume the same amount of students apply to the Toronto OCIs from Osgoode as Vancouver OCIs from UBC, osgoode places around 45% of student that apply on Bay… not too shabby 

[meandtheboys]

40 minutes ago, Psychometronic said:

OP's status is "law student," so it's not clear why they're asking this question now.

I've noticed a lot of people have switched to "law student" after being accepted rather than having actually started 1L.  I mean it's technically true but I'd prefer they not simply because now their opinions/advice seem more qualified than they have any right to be sometimes, and it can be misleading to those who don't bother to log in and check post history.

Seems like @CleanHands beat me to it with a similar (and better worded) complaint, but this thread is just another example of that tag being problematic.

Edited June 15, 2021 by meandtheboys

[canuckfanatic]

5 hours ago, historicaladvantage said:

I just looked at the stats and there were 18 people hired from UVIC and 15 people from TRU compared to 56 from UBC for the 2021 Vancouver recruit.

Where did you get those numbers? I was sent a list of 24 TRU students who secured Vancouver OCI positions this year.

[ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ]

Even if you qualified your ranking with 'debatable', I have seen more people rank the "top schools" as McGill second and UBC third, not vice versa like you suggested. This should tell you how useless these rankings are 🤷‍♂️

[historicaladvantage]

20 hours ago, canuckfanatic said:

Where did you get those numbers? I was sent a list of 24 TRU students who secured Vancouver OCI positions this year.

http://ultravires.ca/2021/05/vancouver-2021-2l-summer-recruitment-numbers/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=vancouver-2021-2l-summer-recruitment-numbers

[canuckfanatic]

1 hour ago, historicaladvantage said:

http://ultravires.ca/2021/05/vancouver-2021-2l-summer-recruitment-numbers/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=vancouver-2021-2l-summer-recruitment-numbers

Thanks for the link. Looks like the discrepancy is because this list only has 17 employers, 2 of which didn't respond. Harper Grey, Whitelaw, RBS, EKB, Miller Thomson, and ICBC hired TRU students through OCIs but aren't listed in that link.

[Meryl]

On 6/15/2021 at 3:47 PM, meandtheboys said:

I've noticed a lot of people have switched to "law student" after being accepted rather than having actually started 1L.  I mean it's technically true but I'd prefer they not simply because now their opinions/advice seem more qualified than they have any right to be sometimes, and it can be misleading to those who don't bother to log in and check post history.

I could have sworn that law admit wasn’t an option in the first week or two of this forum. I believe you had to choose between applicant and student, so I chose student at the time. When I saw someone else had the “law admit” title later on, I switched my own. So maybe that’s what’s happened? 

[CBay]

On 6/15/2021 at 12:26 PM, ZineZ said:

I'd encourage you to focus on your broader goals with regards to school culture/geographic location when making your decision. 

Further to this, what ARE the differences in school culture between Osgoode and UBC? 
 

As someone trying to decide between the two schools this week, I’d appreciate any input people have on this.