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In-house offer


Misfit

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Misfit
  • Lawyer

Looking for an outside assessment on an offer I received to move in-house.

I'm currently a 2nd year call at a national. It's a medium-sized company. The role is generalist, but also involves advising in my niche area. The offer is currently 125,000/yr (~20% less than what I earn now on the new scale) with Defined Contribution Pension, matching, good benefits, bonus, and equity. I love the idea of having weekends free, but wondering if I should wait for an in-house job with higher starting salary, or if I'm crazy to walk away. I understand that salary increases in-house are incremental and I'd have to switch companies to get a sizable jump. I paid off my student loans last year, so that's no longer a concern.

Thanks!

 

 

Edited by Misfit
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Bob Jones
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Not bad for a 2nd year call. The generalist role isn’t ideal though as you won’t develop as much within your niche. 

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Depends which city you're from. Here in Montreal, having followed that market very closely for a few years now, I can tell you that it would be a very good salary & conditions for a 2nd year call.

Obviously, your point is entirely valid - you can say goodbye to 10+% yearly increases on your comp. You will stay at 125,000 + more or less inflation for a few years, and opportunities are more scarce. 

Same goes for your training, you will certainly never get the same level of experience than you do in a national law firm. Plus, after making only two years in a national law firm, that experience will end up being anecdotic on your resume. 

The thing is, although the exits do improve each year you stay in a national law firm, the salary % of the salary cut is much greater, too. Plus, if you want to exit for a Director of legal affairs, GC / Assistant GC position or whatever, you'll need to stay for a while (senior associate / young partner). Anything below, you'll end up exiting for an in-house counsel position, too, and you won't significantly improve your exit by staying any longer.

Therefore, if you don't plan on sticking around for another 4-5 years in said national law firm, I say take it.

Edited by infoinfoinfo
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I think that answer is right for Toronto too, though maybe you could negotiate another 5-10K on top of that. Or maybe not. I'm more familiar with the big company market where $5K is not really that material in a big department and internal fairness is more important.

I don't think you'd need to stick with the firm for another 4-5 years to get a decent premium on that. More like 2-3, then you could probably get $170-$180K to start, including bonus, if you go to a large department.

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  • 2 months later...
On 2/3/2022 at 12:27 PM, Jaggers said:

I think that answer is right for Toronto too, though maybe you could negotiate another 5-10K on top of that. Or maybe not. I'm more familiar with the big company market where $5K is not really that material in a big department and internal fairness is more important.

I don't think you'd need to stick with the firm for another 4-5 years to get a decent premium on that. More like 2-3, then you could probably get $170-$180K to start, including bonus, if you go to a large department.

How many years of post-call experience would you need to command $150K starting? 3?

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Hard to say right now with salaries escalating. Maybe. 4 years would probably guarantee it. For a big company in Toronto.

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  • 1 month later...
jdavis
  • Lawyer
On 4/9/2022 at 9:57 PM, Jaggers said:

Hard to say right now with salaries escalating. Maybe. 4 years would probably guarantee it. For a big company in Toronto.

Sounds about right. First couple of years tends to be relatively close to big firm. Which is why most people bolt after 2-4 years. After that, it becomes tougher to go in-house, unless (a) you land in a large in-house department, such as a bank or insurance company, that will pay a premium for specialized skills, or (b) you're willing to take a sizable pay hit. (Which many are.)

An exception to that rule exists where you leave a firm for a client you work closely with. They already know you, and they'll reason that they're getting great value paying you $200K/yr rather than $700/hr. I know a junior partner who was her client's first in-house lawyer by making that exact pitch herself. Smart. For securities and corporate lawyers, it's also not uncommon for 15-20+ year partners to leave to be GC of a public company for large dollars.

As others have said, in-house raises come very slowly. Maybe 2-3%/yr. I know in-house lawyers (Toronto) making 150K at three years post-call, and some making the same 10-15 years post-call. Highly variable. The ones making 150K at 3-4 years tend to be new hires poached under the 'new' scale, to the consternation of older lawyers who took a decade to reach that number. More than a few in-house departments are being forced to review their pay scales in light of this.

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Yeah, we have recently made some offers to new hires who, in order to entice them from the new pay scales at the big firms, will have a higher salary than their boss. Which is obviously not sustainable.

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