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Osgoode Hall vs UBC


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atarack
  • Applicant

I am an international student and I got offers from several schools until now.

Among the offers I got, Osgoode Hall and UBC are my top two.

Tuition for international students is quite the same at the both schools, which is about 35000.

So I think the cost would be similar.

 

I am interested in working in Big Law to do solicitor type of work, if possible M&A stuffs, as a corporate lawyer - this is the main reason I came to Canadian law school.

I hoped to work in US big firms one day but this is secondary compared to my prior objective I mentioned above.

 

Would you guys give me some advice for me.

 

Edited by atarack
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Darth Vader
  • Lawyer

Most graduates from both schools tend to gravitate towards corporate/Big law careers. Do you want to work in Toronto or Vancouver? That would probably be the deciding factor. If you want to do US Big law, I would be leaning towards Osgoode. 

Did you get into any US law schools?

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LMP
  • Law Student

If you want to work in NY big law I'd  pick Osgoode. Maybe consider the JD/MBA as well. 

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atarack
  • Applicant
6 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

Most graduates from both schools tend to gravitate towards corporate/Big law careers. Do you want to work in Toronto or Vancouver? That would probably be the deciding factor. If you want to do US Big law, I would be leaning towards Osgoode. 

Did you get into any US law schools?

Thank you for the advice. Whether I want to work in Toronto or Vancouver, that is what makes me concern - I don't have particular preference over those two cities.

Thus, my main concern is that which school would maximize my possibility toward Big Law.

 

Furthermore, I don't have permanent residence from both Canada and USA. Thus, I think it may take time until I actually got into US firm, if possible - I need to secure the permanent residence first in Canada for stability. Because of permanent residence, I did not apply to US law schools.

 

For now, I found the statistics about employment result in Toronto but could not find the result from law schools outside Ontario, including UBC.

So, although I heard a lot that UBC is good at sending its student to Big Law in Vancouver, I don't know how successful it is in case of Big Law.

 

My first priority is going to Big Law to do what I want to do as a lawyer. Working in US is really secondary objective that I could abandon as long as the first objective is achieved - I heard US firms hires some lawyers in Toronto which could be another option and I am worried about Asian-phobia that is prevalent in US.

 

Hope you would give me more advice.

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atarack
  • Applicant
6 hours ago, LMP said:

If you want to work in NY big law I'd  pick Osgoode. Maybe consider the JD/MBA as well. 

Do you think JD/MBA would be a must to achieve my goal? 

I also think JD/MBA is a good option but I have to consider the expense including stiff tuition - as you may know, tuition for international students is way higher in many law schools than that of domestic students.
Unless JD/MBA program is quite necessary for my future career, I would like to avert it due to extension of studying period in school.

6 hours ago, mistertubby said:

osgoode is the easy choice

May I ask you what exactly you mean by 'easy choice'?

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LMP
  • Law Student
13 minutes ago, atarack said:

Do you think JD/MBA would be a must to achieve my goal? 

I also think JD/MBA is a good option but I have to consider the expense including stiff tuition - as you may know, tuition for international students is way higher in many law schools than that of domestic students.
Unless JD/MBA program is quite necessary for my future career, I would like to avert it due to extension of studying period in school.

May I ask you what exactly you mean by 'easy choice'?

You don't have to do the JD/MBA, but it might help. Of course if you can just get good grades, you'll be fine without it.

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Darth Vader
  • Lawyer
21 minutes ago, atarack said:

Do you think JD/MBA would be a must to achieve my goal? 

I also think JD/MBA is a good option but I have to consider the expense including stiff tuition - as you may know, tuition for international students is way higher in many law schools than that of domestic students.
Unless JD/MBA program is quite necessary for my future career, I would like to avert it due to extension of studying period in school.

May I ask you what exactly you mean by 'easy choice'?

You're overthinking this. There are tons of big law jobs in the market. In fact, there are more corporate jobs in the formal recruits than any other employer. They are not that difficult to get if you are not picky about the firm you go to (as some firms are harder to get into than others). If you go to UBC or Osgoode and apply broadly, you should land somewhere. In the worst case scenario, you end up at a small or mid-sized corporate firm and lateral into a big law firm after you get some work experience.

Your goals are not that difficult to achieve from these schools, and you certainly do not need to do a JD/MBA unless your grades are shit in first year law school.

As you can see, more than half of UBC's class of 2020 articled in full service/general practice firms. 

 

Edited by Darth Vader
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atarack
  • Applicant
1 hour ago, LMP said:

You don't have to do the JD/MBA, but it might help. Of course if you can just get good grades, you'll be fine without it.

Thank you for your advice!

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atarack
  • Applicant
1 hour ago, Darth Vader said:

You're overthinking this. There are tons of big law jobs in the market. In fact, there are more corporate jobs in the formal recruits than any other employer. They are not that difficult to get if you are not picky about the firm you go to (as some firms are harder to get into than others). If you go to UBC or Osgoode and apply broadly, you should land somewhere. In the worst case scenario, you end up at a small or mid-sized corporate firm and lateral into a big law firm after you get some work experience.

Your goals are not that difficult to achieve from these schools, and you certainly do not need to do a JD/MBA unless your grades are shit in first year law school.

As you can see, more than half of UBC's class of 2020 articled in full service/general practice firms. 

 

Thanks for the reply. 
I would like to ask you one more question. I heard that NY is the biggest market when it comes to corporate law including M&A stuffs.

Although going to US is my second objective, I would like to consider whether I could get higher chance in working in NY firms at Osgoode or at UBC.

I would be glad if you share your knowledge and experience.

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AHappyLawyer
  • Lawyer
3 hours ago, atarack said:

Thank you for the advice. Whether I want to work in Toronto or Vancouver, that is what makes me concern - I don't have particular preference over those two cities.

Thus, my main concern is that which school would maximize my possibility toward Big Law.

This is easy. Go to Osgoode. Toronto is Canada's largest economic and legal market, you don't seem to have any special BC connections or considerations otherwise drawing you to Vancouver, and there are just more diverse BigLaw opportunities available for you in Toronto. 

If you're top of your class (top 10%) at Osgoode you'll have a solid shot at US firms, though it's a bit early to think about it. 

Edited by AHappyLawyer
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Darthvader
  • Applicant

@atarack Hey! Fellow International Applicant here. Sorry this is completely unrelated to your query but since there’s a drastic shortage of advice for international applicants, I was wondering if you know, if international students studying the JD can get a line of credit with a co-signer or even independently? 
 

Hoping you have come across the same  doubt while planning your finances!

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SNAILS
  • Law Student

I go to Osgoode, but that gives me no insight on UBC. For all I know, I would have enjoyed UBC more than I am presently enjoying Osgoode. 

My two cents is to research the cities, and figure out which one you want to live in for 3 years. Also consider cost of living.

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mistertubby
  • Law Student
13 hours ago, atarack said:

May I ask you what exactly you mean by 'easy choice'?

the choice you should make 

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atarack
  • Applicant
On 2/5/2022 at 4:19 PM, Darthvader said:

@atarack Hey! Fellow International Applicant here. Sorry this is completely unrelated to your query but since there’s a drastic shortage of advice for international applicants, I was wondering if you know, if international students studying the JD can get a line of credit with a co-signer or even independently? 
 

Hoping you have come across the same  doubt while planning your finances!

I heard Canada allows student loans for international students as well but I am not sure about that because I did not find it out by myself.

Beside that, I have not heard of anything.

On 2/5/2022 at 3:37 PM, AHappyLawyer said:

This is easy. Go to Osgoode. Toronto is Canada's largest economic and legal market, you don't seem to have any special BC connections or considerations otherwise drawing you to Vancouver, and there are just more diverse BigLaw opportunities available for you in Toronto. 

If you're top of your class (top 10%) at Osgoode you'll have a solid shot at US firms, though it's a bit early to think about it. 

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your opinion and advice.

 

22 hours ago, mistertubby said:

the choice you should make 

Thanks for the reply. May I ask why you think Osgoode is an easy choice?

 

On 2/5/2022 at 5:59 PM, SNAILS said:

I go to Osgoode, but that gives me no insight on UBC. For all I know, I would have enjoyed UBC more than I am presently enjoying Osgoode. 

My two cents is to research the cities, and figure out which one you want to live in for 3 years. Also consider cost of living.

Thanks for the reply. I'd better think more about the conditions of the cities then. 

Edited by atarack
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99problems
  • Articling Student
On 2/4/2022 at 2:42 PM, atarack said:

I am an international student and I got offers from several schools until now.

Among the offers I got, Osgoode Hall and UBC are my top two.

Tuition for international students is quite the same at the both schools, which is about 35000.

So I think the cost would be similar.

 

I am interested in working in Big Law to do solicitor type of work, if possible M&A stuffs, as a corporate lawyer - this is the main reason I came to Canadian law school.

I hoped to work in US big firms one day but this is secondary compared to my prior objective I mentioned above.

 

Would you guys give me some advice for me.

 

I went to Osgoode and now am going to BC for work. I didn't apply to the UBC, but it seems I should have. Generally, my advice (and almost everyone else's) is to go to a school in the province you intend to work in. So if you wish to work at Bay St (aka big law of Toronto), you would stand a better chance if you went to Osgoode. Also, this way, you would avoid the hassle of moving from one province to the other, which I can tell by personal experience is something quite annoying.

You certainly can go to Vancouver for work from Osgoode or UoT, but the BC market is very protective and sceptical toward out-of-province applicants (this I also know from personal experience). In my interviews, I kept getting asked about my connections to Vancouver. This wouldn't be an issue for you since you can say that, as an international student, you do not have any connections to Toronto either. Or maybe talk about the weather...

From what I've heard, it is easier to go to NY from Osgoode. It requires you to perform quite well, being in top 10% or better. But if you manage to perform this well in the UBC, I'd say you have a good chance regardless of where you went to school.

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atarack
  • Applicant
15 hours ago, not not a lawyer said:

I went to Osgoode and now am going to BC for work. I didn't apply to the UBC, but it seems I should have. Generally, my advice (and almost everyone else's) is to go to a school in the province you intend to work in. So if you wish to work at Bay St (aka big law of Toronto), you would stand a better chance if you went to Osgoode. Also, this way, you would avoid the hassle of moving from one province to the other, which I can tell by personal experience is something quite annoying.

You certainly can go to Vancouver for work from Osgoode or UoT, but the BC market is very protective and sceptical toward out-of-province applicants (this I also know from personal experience). In my interviews, I kept getting asked about my connections to Vancouver. This wouldn't be an issue for you since you can say that, as an international student, you do not have any connections to Toronto either. Or maybe talk about the weather...

From what I've heard, it is easier to go to NY from Osgoode. It requires you to perform quite well, being in top 10% or better. But if you manage to perform this well in the UBC, I'd say you have a good chance regardless of where you went to school.

Thank you for the helpful information.

You said BC market is quite protective toward out - of province applicants. Do you think it also applies to Toronto and Ontario market as well?

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99problems
  • Articling Student
4 hours ago, atarack said:

Thank you for the helpful information.

You said BC market is quite protective toward out - of province applicants. Do you think it also applies to Toronto and Ontario market as well?

Not that much. You can check the profile of lawyers in Toronto firms; the majority are, of course, from Ontario schools, but there are more out-of-province lawyers in Ontario firms than there is in BC firms.

People generally go to school in the province in which they intend to practice. That said, Ontario (Toronto) firms are by far the most versatile in terms of where their lawyers went to school.

Edited by not not a lawyer
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atarack
  • Applicant
On 2/7/2022 at 10:27 PM, not not a lawyer said:

Not that much. You can check the profile of lawyers in Toronto firms; the majority are, of course, from Ontario schools, but there are more out-of-province lawyers in Ontario firms than there is in BC firms.

People generally go to school in the province in which they intend to practice. That said, Ontario (Toronto) firms are by far the most versatile in terms of where their lawyers went to school.

Thank you for the reply!

It seems that lots of networking will make a big difference especially in Ontario law schools. 

I will consider that. Thank you.

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  • 5 months later...
CBay
  • Law School Admit
On 2/6/2022 at 9:34 AM, 99problems said:

From what I've heard, it is easier to go to NY from Osgoode. It requires you to perform quite well, being in top 10% or better. But if you manage to perform this well in the UBC, I'd say you have a good chance regardless of where you went to school.

Are you suggesting its possible to go straight to US big law from UBC if you grad in the top 10%?

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99problems
  • Articling Student

You have to check UBC's stats for this, but I think if you are in the top 10% of your class at UBC, you stand a very good chance.

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CBay
  • Law School Admit
15 hours ago, 99problems said:

You have to check UBC's stats for this, but I think if you are in the top 10% of your class at UBC, you stand a very good chance.

What I did find on this says that no one from UBC has went straight into US big law after graduation in recent years, that's why I was curious. Would definitely be interested in knowing if I'm wrong on this though. 

I do know that a fair number of folks have went to NYC from UBC, via Canadians firms first. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
Asian Jim
  • Law Student
On 8/6/2022 at 3:28 AM, CBay said:

What I did find on this says that no one from UBC has went straight into US big law after graduation in recent years, that's why I was curious. Would definitely be interested in knowing if I'm wrong on this though. 

I do know that a fair number of folks have went to NYC from UBC, via Canadians firms first. 

This is untrue. I know two ppl who went to NYC for 2L 2021 summer, one in 2022 2L summer, and I was recently hired as a 2023 2L summer straight from UBC. But all of those students ranked in the top 2~4% of Allard (80%+ avg) and I think going to Oz will be a lot better if your goal is to go to NYC as soon as possible. 

Edited by Asian Jim
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