Any other people with 93+ indexes still waiting?

[mkokasd]

Anyone else with a high index score still stuck on 'Waiting Evaluation'? Seeing as most of the acceptances are now going to people in the mid 92 range, I'm wondering if they've allocated a lot more weight to the personal statements, or if maybe there is another reason why I've seemingly been skipped over? 

I had thought mine was pretty decent (STEM major, couple years of work experience and academic awards from my faculty, nURM however which limited what I could write about for the third question), but then I guess considering they had 1600+ applicants there were likely a lot of people that had a better personal statement than me.

Pretty disheartening considering I applied in the first week of September with what is supposedly a 'guaranteed' index score only to now seemingly be on the outside looking in. It would be nice if UBC could actually communicate what they look for/give us status updates instead of leaving us completely in the dark...

[law000099]

hang in there, there are still plenty of offers to be sent out in the coming months and it will be on a rolling basis, so you can hear back at any time. Keep your spirits high!

[LordBONSAI]

Some ppl on this forum (incl. me) contacted the admissions and got the response that we're not hearing back until late April or May. Maybe it's a euphemism for waitlists but I do think, as @AustonMatthews34suggested, that they'll likely send out acceptances on a rolling basis when those admitted in previous waves decline the offers. 

I'd remain optimistic about your chance. I understand the lack of communication is disappointing but I don't see why you won't get in this cycle.

Have you graduated already? The only reason I can think of is an incomplete degree. (UBC admits very few applicants who are still in school.)

Edited April 2, 2022 by LordBONSAI

[mkokasd]

Thanks guys! I graduated a few years ago so that shouldn't be the issue. I'll try to keep a bit of hope but it is just upsetting seeing pretty much everyone who is being accepted right now having lower index scores than me. If other people with high index scores are in the same boat, its just that they are looking for something in particular with the personal statements, but I guess who knows?

Edited April 3, 2022 by mkokasd

[LordBONSAI]

50 minutes ago, mkokasd said:

Thanks guys! I graduated a few years ago so that shouldn't be the issue. I'll try to keep a bit of hope but it is just upsetting seeing pretty much everyone who is being accepted right now having lower index scores than me. If other people with high index scores are in the same boat, its just that they are looking for something in particular with the personal statements, but I guess who knows?

From what I know, UBC still is a heavily indexed school, meaning that the most important factor of admissions is stats. I've never personally seen anyone with a 93+ index get rejected or waitlisted (even in last cycle, which is thought as super competitive). 

When I contacted the admissions this week, I got the impression that they haven't reviewed all applications yet. Maybe (take this with a grain of salt) that they're no longer using the spread sheet with a red line for selecting candidates this year. I've also read on one thread that each part of your app is reviewed separately so it's very likely they're still gauging who to accept at this moment. Together, it might explain why the indices of recent admits are all over the place (from high 91's to mid 92's). 

But anyways, if you didn't screw up your PS (like uploading a blank sheet), you'll likely hear from them some time this month if not next.

Edited April 3, 2022 by LordBONSAI

[734bird]

16 hours ago, LordBONSAI said:

Have you graduated already? The only reason I can think of is an incomplete degree. (UBC admits very few applicants who are still in school.)

Actually this isn't exactly accurate. Maybe yes, they don't admit many applicants without a degree, but that would just be because less apply. I was accepted last year while completing my third year (actually they accepted me with only a record of me completing 19/40 courses, conditional on me finishes 11 more at the same average before the school year started). I contacted admissions to ask how they assess applicants without a degree and they said exactly the same, you just get 1/2 the amount of drops when they are calculating your gpa

[Kiki23]

I'm in pretty much the exact same boat as you OP. Graduated a couple years ago, index score 93, STEM major, couple years of work experience and academic awards from my faculty. I kind of would expect that they don't factor in minority status unless you are a discretionary or Indigenous candidate? But fwiw, I am queer and a woman and did write about that in the third question. 

I've been wondering like, was my personal statement just garbage somehow? Did I botch the LSAT writing sample? Anyway, hopefully we'll hear very soon.  

[mkokasd]

I've been triple checking my personal statement/lsat writing sample as well just to see if there are any glaring obvious issues but for me at least it looks like it must just be that they didn't like what they read :(. It sucks because I definitely feel like I have accomplished enough to where my PS wasn't complete garbage and I have a really specific why UBC but I guess what can you do... I never thought I would get rejected from a 93 index. Doesn't seem fair but I guess there is no point moping

lets hope we weren't overlooked and hear good news back soon

 

[pastmidnight]

I am optimistic that people with an index score over 93 will hear back soon, likely with good news. UBC does rely heavily on indexes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they admit everyone over a certain index and reject everyone under it. They received more applications than in previous years, and COVID has resulted in grade and LSAT score inflation. Admissions are more competitive than ever across the board, and as a result UBC is likely finding it necessary to put more emphasis on people's personal statements than they have historically to help differentiate between equally qualified candidates. 

I am sympathetic to people waiting to hear back, and think UBC (and other schools) need an admissions system that offers candidates more transparency, but it's important to keep in mind that no one is entitled to admission, and that there are likely, at a minimum, three students with high index scores for each of UBC's 200 places. Almost everyone applying (at least under the general category) is going to have a high GPA, a high LSAT score, work/volunteer experience, academic awards, and participation in other extracurriculars under their belt. Others have said this on the discord, but I think many students greatly overestimate how competitive the non-stats part of their application is because compared to their peers at large they are clearly very accomplished and involved, but compared to other law school applicants they aren't going to stand out. That isn't any knock on you, because it's likely the case for 80% , 90% of all applicants, myself included. 

This forum is also not going to include the stats for everyone who was admitted. The people who were offered admission last week and shared their stats on the forum are only going to represent a handful of the group of students recently admitted -- the group that posted on the forum had lower index scores than you, but that doesn't mean that everyone who received admission on April 1st did. 

Worst case scenario, if you aren't admitted and you are dead-set on UBC, you can feel good about being in a better position to reapply than other unsuccessful applicants, because it's a lot easier to refresh a personal statement to make it more competitive than a low GPA or LSAT score. 

[Philosophy]

Same here. Competitive index score and I thought my personal statements were good. (No red flags or grammatical errors or anything) 

I can't help but think that in the pre-covid years I, along with a handful of others in this forum, could likely have been an auto-admit.  

I've talked to admissions a number of times since September and was basically told it was (once again) a very competitive year and that it will come down to my personal statement. 

The waiting is the worst part. I've been "Waiting Evaluation" since October 4th. I think U of T does it the best with three rounds that end in mid/late March. 

I like to plan ahead and I dislike that I'm essentially handcuffed until UBC takes their sweet time to get back to me. It would be easier to just get a rejection so I can move on with my life. God forbid, the torture extends with a waitlist just to get rejected in like July. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Philosophy
Grammar

[Constantine]

On 4/3/2022 at 7:00 PM, pastmidnight said:

but that doesn't necessarily mean that they admit everyone over a certain index and reject everyone under it.

After all these years the necessary and sufficient conditionals continue to follow me wherever I go lol. 

seriously though, Allard themselves said that the personal statement is now in equal standing to an applicants gpa and lsat. If they were given a choice between a 93 with a blank slate and a 92 with a great CV they’d probably choose the 92. So I more or less agree with what you’re saying here. 
 

[Patient0L]

46 minutes ago, Constantine said:

After all these years the necessary and sufficient conditionals continue to follow me wherever I go lol. 

seriously though, Allard themselves said that the personal statement is now in equal standing to an applicants gpa and lsat. If they were given a choice between a 93 with a blank slate and a 92 with a great CV they’d probably choose the 92. So I more or less agree with what you’re saying here. 
 

Yes, I think at this point there are probably 100s of candidates with index scores that demonstrate the necessary aptitude for success in Allard’s program. However index score alone isn’t sufficient for admission.

 

TBH, the idea of auto-admit always seemed a bit suspect to me. Especially now, as they’ve made their “questionnaire” so much about diversity. There are obviously other non-index factors that they are looking for. 

[Philosophy]

9 hours ago, Constantine said:

After all these years the necessary and sufficient conditionals continue to follow me wherever I go lol. 

seriously though, Allard themselves said that the personal statement is now in equal standing to an applicants gpa and lsat. If they were given a choice between a 93 with a blank slate and a 92 with a great CV they’d probably choose the 92. So I more or less agree with what you’re saying here. 
 

I agree that stats are not necessarily everything, but weighing the personal statement 1/3rd of the entire application doesn't seem like the best solution. Maybe adding interviews / recommendation letters / resumes would contribute to a relatively more holistic approach. 

I wonder if they evaluate people who got their LSAT scores / final GPAs in the pre-covid era slightly more favorably. When I went to UBC, class averages were around 65-75%. My MATH180 class average was literally 58. I heard everyone just gets As now? (half joking) 

Also a pre-pandemic high 160s would probably equate to something like a 170ish FLEX score and vice versa. 

I would hope they would consider these nuances, as it makes a big difference. 

[Byzantine]

Having gone through the admissions process last year I can definitely sympathize about how terrible the admissions process is at UBC and how long it takes (they even initally calculated my GPA totally wrong). Last year they said they had moved to weighing the PS for 1/3 but I don't really think it was the case as they still seemed to auto-admit above 92. Maybe things have changed this year? 

Hope you hear back soon! While the admissions process was pretty bad the actual school/learning process has been great

[Patient0L]

2 hours ago, Philosophy said:

I agree that stats are not necessarily everything, but weighing the personal statement 1/3rd of the entire application doesn't seem like the best solution. Maybe adding interviews / recommendation letters / resumes would contribute to a relatively more holistic approach. 

I wonder if they evaluate people who got their LSAT scores / final GPAs in the pre-covid era slightly more favorably. When I went to UBC, class averages were around 65-75%. My MATH180 class average was literally 58. I heard everyone just gets As now? (half joking) 

Also a pre-pandemic high 160s would probably equate to something like a 170ish FLEX score and vice versa. 

I would hope they would consider these nuances, as it makes a big difference. 

When I went to undergrad an A+ was a true anomaly. I later taught at my alma mater and never gave out an A+ once! Now there are all these 4.xx  GPA’s… and I’m like, how is that even possible?

[LordBONSAI]

1 hour ago, Patient0L said:

When I went to undergrad an A+ was a true anomaly. I later taught at my alma mater and never gave out an A+ once! Now there are all these 4.xx  GPA’s… and I’m like, how is that even possible?

Disclaimer: I did my undergrad in the US where GPA inflation has been notorious even before the pandemic so take this with a grain of salt.

When my university switch to Zoom in early 2020, one of my profs didn't hold any online sessions because of the lack of tech skills (wild huh?). Instead, we were given attendance grades when we turned in homework each week by email. Also, none of the quizzes or exams were proctored, for which reason I believe cheating was made possible. Later, I talked to an uni admin in the summer, and they said average GPA did spike during COVID for a variety of reasons. First, they understood not everyone had access to laptops and smartphones and the tech barrier to online learning was real. As a result, profs were advised to extend deadlines and give more generous curves than before. Moreover, as more students chose CR/NC, they avoided getting bad grades in the courses they could nonetheless pass. There're other minor factors like time saved on commuting, more flexible studying schedule, etc. 

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by LordBONSAI

[Philosophy]

1 hour ago, Patient0L said:

When I went to undergrad an A+ was a true anomaly. I later taught at my alma mater and never gave out an A+ once! Now there are all these 4.xx  GPA’s… and I’m like, how is that even possible?

Definitely haha. It's crazy. "Back in my day" during undergrad if somebody got a 90% in class it would be seriously impressive. Like damn that guy/gal must be super smart. It devalues the entire grading system if pretty much everyone gets As just for showing up.

[Patient0L]

1 hour ago, Philosophy said:

Definitely haha. It's crazy. "Back in my day" during undergrad if somebody got a 90% in class it would be seriously impressive. Like damn that guy/gal must be super smart. It devalues the entire grading system if pretty much everyone gets As just for showing up.

When I was teaching in unnamed Canadian university I was advised by an older professor that the school had moved towards giving students “lighter” reading assignments… So maybe there are multiple factors at work…

 

 

[Philosophy]

11 minutes ago, Patient0L said:

When I was teaching in unnamed Canadian university I was advised by an older professor that the school had moved towards giving students “lighter” reading assignments… So maybe there are multiple factors at work…

Agreed. Many factors at play. Some quite "controversial." 

I think NYU Professor Jonathan Haidt has done a great job analyzing and assessing the overall situation on campuses right now. Would recommend if you haven't read his stuff already. 

[Patient0L]

7 hours ago, Philosophy said:

Agreed. Many factors at play. Some quite "controversial." 

I think NYU Professor Jonathan Haidt has done a great job analyzing and assessing the overall situation on campuses right now. Would recommend if you haven't read his stuff already. 

Cool! I will check him out.

[Travis Tanner]

On 4/2/2022 at 9:44 AM, LordBONSAI said:

Have you graduated already? The only reason I can think of is an incomplete degree. (UBC admits very few applicants who are still in school.)

When you UBC admits very few applicants who are still in school, does it include applicants who are in their final year? I am heading into my last year and looking to apply this upcoming cycle for Fall 2023 intakes? I wont be graduated until the spring of 2023.

Thanks alot!