Am i safe only applying to McGill because I don't want to do the last?

[Andalusian2400]

I am planning to apply to law school this fall but do not want to write the LSAT + McGill is my ideal school. How safe of a bet would you say it is I get accepted based on the following statistics/resume? Are McGill's admissions hard to predict or do they follow an expected pattern wherein you are almost guaranteed to get in if you meet certain criterion?

 

I have a 4.08/4.33 GPA, meaning i have an average between A and A+ (but closer to the latter). I work as a research assistant for a tenured professor: mostly coordinating with archives since I'm a history major and he's a history professor. I will have 3 extremely strong recommendation letters from professors, including the professor to whom I am an RA. I'm doing an honors history degree - meaning I'm writing a 60 page mini dissertation - if that counts for anything. I won 7 merit scholarships and 1 essay award over the years. I volunteered for 70 hours per semester as a writing tutor. I worked as a paid tutor as well at the university but rarely got any hours. I also work as a high school tutor outside school but again that does not give me a lot of hours. Another small thing I do is occasionally speak at uni events to new students on how to be organized and stuff  Also: I'd say I'm passively bilingual but have not taken any French courses beyond grade 11.

 

My main anxiety: I have little "real world" worj experience, only working in retail for 3 months and as a clerk at my family's business for like 10 hours per week.

 

Why I don't want to do the LSAT: I have no valid reason other than the fear that I could do poorly jeopardizing my chances to get into a good law school.

 

Do you think it's safe to JUST apply to McGill?

Correction: my GPA is closer to A than A+ : not the inverse

 

And to clarify: obviously, given my weak French education, I live in English canada

Edited April 12, 2022 by Andalusian2400

[Notworthy]

How good is your French? Because you may be required to take a bilingual test and if you think you’ll fail you should reconsider alternative routes. There’s a self-assessment on that page you should take it to see where you stand.

https://www.mcgill.ca/law/bcl-jd/admissions-guide/eligibility

[Notworthy]

The page also states you will be in one course at minimum that is fully in French. I also took French only until Grade 12 and know I wouldn’t have a shot in the dark passing a course fluent in French but if you think you can your GPA, ECs are great.

“Due to space limitations, it is not always possible for students to be registered in courses given in their preferred language. Almost all first-year students will be registered in at least one class given in French.”

You writing the LSAT will not jeopardize you getting into a good law school, you need to write it for every other school in Canada. There are other good law schools besides McGill where you don’t have to take on not only the burden of law school but becoming more fluent in French.

[Andalusian2400]

8 hours ago, Notworthy said:

The page also states you will be in one course at minimum that is fully in French. I also took French only until Grade 12 and know I wouldn’t have a shot in the dark passing a course fluent in French but if you think you can your GPA, ECs are great.

“Due to space limitations, it is not always possible for students to be registered in courses given in their preferred language. Almost all first-year students will be registered in at least one class given in French.”

You writing the LSAT will not jeopardize you getting into a good law school, you need to write it for every other school in Canada. There are other good law schools besides McGill where you don’t have to take on not only the burden of law school but becoming more fluent in French.

Thanks for the feedback,

 

I'm worried I won't do well on the lsat since when I did not do well on the logical reasoning section when I did some mock questions 

[Notworthy]

But are you going to do well in a class fully in French? I know this is a stressful decision for you but you don’t have a choice. I didn’t do well my first and second time on the LSAT and I currently got into four schools. If you want to go to a law school in Canada your going to have to write the LSAT.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Notworthy

[tiktok]

I don't know about the rest of English Canada, but grade 11 core french in Ontario doesn't make you passively bilingual, especially if your French teacher was an anglophone who only took the bare min of French courses just to secure a job. 

Edited April 12, 2022 by tiktok

[GreyDude]

14 hours ago, Andalusian2400 said:

I am planning to apply to law school this fall but do not want to write the LSAT + McGill is my ideal school. How safe of a bet would you say it is I get accepted based on the following statistics/resume? Are McGill's admissions hard to predict or do they follow an expected pattern wherein you are almost guaranteed to get in if you meet certain criterion?

McGill is a holistic school. Nobody is guaranteed to get in, and they seem to make that almost a point of pride. You sound like a strong candidate, but nobody can tell you that you are a shoo-in. In particular, the various things you say make it clear that you are academically strong. That's important, but it's not everything: a candidate recently posted to the 'accepted' thread whose GPA is 3.09, but who has a 173 LSAT and a lot of very strong life experience. Another candidate posted to the 'rejected' thread with a GPA of 4.2/4.3. Academics is just one part of the overall equation.

It's up to you whether or not to write the LSAT. The risk of a low mark is real, and it's a pain in the neck to study for it. However, if you were to not get in to McGill, those stats you mention might get you in elsewhere, making the LSAT possibly worth it. Speaking for myself, I'm not sure that not wanting to write the LSAT is a sufficient reason for only applying to the one school.

The bilingualism point is also important. Are you really passively bilingual?  Puisque tu dis que tu n'as pas étudié le français au-delà de ce qu'on appellerait le 'secondaire 5’ au Québec, es-tu capable de lire ceci sans devoir travailler pour bien comprendre, et sans regarder dans un dictionnaire? Si tu devais lire un texte très avancé en français, serait-ce possible que ce soit un boulot trop difficile pour toi?  It's a serious question.

You can always roll the dice and apply only to McGill. It's a risk that some of us choose to take, and it doesn't always work out well... but sometimes it does.

[Andalusian2400]

4 hours ago, GreyDude said:

McGill is a holistic school. Nobody is guaranteed to get in, and they seem to make that almost a point of pride. You sound like a strong candidate, but nobody can tell you that you are a shoo-in. In particular, the various things you say make it clear that you are academically strong. That's important, but it's not everything: a candidate recently posted to the 'accepted' thread whose GPA is 3.09, but who has a 173 LSAT and a lot of very strong life experience. Another candidate posted to the 'rejected' thread with a GPA of 4.2/4.3. Academics is just one part of the overall equation.

It's up to you whether or not to write the LSAT. The risk of a low mark is real, and it's a pain in the neck to study for it. However, if you were to not get in to McGill, those stats you mention might get you in elsewhere, making the LSAT possibly worth it. Speaking for myself, I'm not sure that not wanting to write the LSAT is a sufficient reason for only applying to the one school.

The bilingualism point is also important. Are you really passively bilingual?  Puisque tu dis que tu n'as pas étudié le français au-delà de ce qu'on appellerait le 'secondaire 5’ au Québec, es-tu capable de lire ceci sans devoir travailler pour bien comprendre, et sans regarder dans un dictionnaire? Si tu devais lire un texte très avancé en français, serait-ce possible que ce soit un boulot trop difficile pour toi?  It's a serious question.

You can always roll the dice and apply only to McGill. It's a risk that some of us choose to take, and it doesn't always work out well... but sometimes it does.

Je veux clarifier: c'est vrai que j'ai etudié francais seulment jusqua onzieme anee, mais j'ai etudié a l'immersion francais. Quel que chose d'autre: j'ai amelioré mon francais depuis finir l'école secondaire.

 

J'ai pu lire et comprendre ce que t'as dit en francais mais je ne sais pas si je pourais comprendre des texte beaucoup plus avancée que ça. Est ce que tu as trouvé que des etudians qui parle le francais...semi courament comme moi ont eu beaucoup de difficulte?

Apologies for the lack of accents and stuff: autocorrect

 

 

5 hours ago, tiktok said:

I don't know about the rest of English Canada, but grade 11 core french in Ontario doesn't make you passively bilingual, especially if your French teacher was an anglophone who only took the bare min of French courses just to secure a job. 

To clarify: twas French immersion. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Andalusian2400

[aurora borealis]

11 hours ago, Andalusian2400 said:

I'm worried I won't do well on the lsat since when I did not do well on the logical reasoning section when I did some mock questions 

I'm going to leave the discussion of passive bilingualism to people who are more knowledgeable than myself, but I will weigh in on this. I got a 168 on the LSAT in November (94th percentile according to LSAC). My diagnostic LSAT was a 153 and I got 15/25 on one logical reasoning section and 18/26 on another. The LSAT is a test that you can learn if you study for it (as I did, which is why I'm using my numbers to show you). I'd recommend studying for it and taking it, if only because it will give you more options should McGill reject you. You might get rejected even if your French is good enough, especially since you cite lack of "real world" experience in your first post.

[nocturnalrelativism]

If you get into McGill, kudos to you BUT if you really want to go into law then it's not a wise decision to put all your eggs in one basket.

I ended up taking the LSAT even though I didn't end up needing it because I'm in a french civil law school now, but I don't regret taking the LSAT. If you don't get into McGill this cycle, it might be worth it for you to study for a few months and take the test to be able to apply to other law schools. 

Do you want to study law (and eventually become a lawyer) or do you only want McGill law?

[BobButtons]

I'd echo what Aurora Borealis said above. My diagnostic LSAT was 156, and by the time I took the exam I was consistently scoring in the low-mid 170's on timed practice exams. It's very learnable - I didn't pay for any tutoring or anything like that, just bought a few of the study materials (Kaplan in my case, but I'm given to understand most people get better results with Power Score). You don't have to spend a fortune on prep. 

I ended up scoring 164 after not sleeping at all the night before the exam (I critically failed my stress management check ;). It was disappointing to score about 10 points lower than I expected, but I got into U Ottawa and Osgoode, the latter of which I'll be attending in the fall. If I had been super focused on U of T, I'd have re-tested. 

The study was difficult and stressful, but also rewarding and actually somewhat fun near the end. It's worth doing. 

[vital_signs]

On 4/12/2022 at 11:37 AM, Andalusian2400 said:

I'm worried I won't do well on the lsat since when I did not do well on the logical reasoning section when I did some mock questions 

To echo everyone else, I think this is a bad reason to swear off the LSAT. The exam can be scary, but based on your grades you are clearly a good student. Rome wasn't built in a day and the exam is set up so that you are not supposed to be able to walk in and do well with no preparation. The average high scoring student puts 3-6 months of preparation into the test, you shouldn't let your performance at the very beginning deter you. I went from 156 on my first diagnostic with no prep to a 170 on test day.

Edited April 13, 2022 by vital_signs

[fairyinlaw]

I completely understand how you're feeling. I felt the same way -- I only applied to McGill and UdeM (as a safe school in case I didn't get into McGill, which was as likely to happen as me getting in). McGill was my dream school and I knew that I wouldn't do well on the LSAT, simply because I'm not great at standardized testing. My GPA and overall application were good, and I just didn't want to risk my chances at McGill because of a shitty LSAT score. 

HOWEVER -- a big part of the reason I felt safe not doing the LSAT was because I knew I didn't want to go out of province (I'm from QC), and that even if I didn't get into my first choice, I had the option of going to a civil law school without an LSAT score. I most definitely did not put all my eggs in one basket because of how confident I was to get into McGill -- I ended up getting in, but I did not my any means expect this to happen when applying and making the decision to not do the LSAT. Essentially, my point is that you should not make this decision based on how likely you think you are to get in. As GreyDude said, McGill is a holistic school, and there is simply no way to infer in advance whether you will get in.

I think you should make this decision based on factors such as how much you want to go to any Law School. If you only want to go to McGill, ask yourself how likely you are to do well on the LSAT, which is something you can actually figure out based on previous standardized testing success, how much time you have in the next several months to prepare, etc. I recommend doing a diagnostic test and seeing what happens. If you are dying to go to McGill and no other law school, have done a few practice LSATs and attempted to study for a couple weeks (which is what I did), and still think the LSAT will destroy your chances at McGill, take the plunge and apply without the LSAT. Worst case, if you don't get in, you pick a different strategy the following year and apply again!

I would say take your time for this decision, and really gauge how well you're likely to do on the LSAT. If you end up being great at the test, not only will you still be a good candidate for McGill, but you'll be able to apply to other common law programs throughout the country. 

Good luck!!