When is the best time to get married or have kids from a career perspective?

[Ramesses]

My girlfriend and I are starting to talk about marriage and having kids in the future. 

From a career perspective, is there a better time to get married (i.e. end of articles vs junior associate vs mid-level associate)? What about for having kids?

[infoinfoinfo]

I'm not sure there is a "best" time to do it. It's always going to be though if you work in Big Law.

I'm not sure what getting married would change, but having kids will definitely be challenging. 

You should have them before you're making partner (if that's your goal). And make sure to take the longest paternity leave your firm allows.

[Ramesses]

1 hour ago, infoinfoinfo said:

I'm not sure there is a "best" time to do it. It's always going to be though if you work in Big Law.

I'm not sure what getting married would change, but having kids will definitely be challenging. 

You should have them before you're making partner (if that's your goal). And make sure to take the longest paternity leave your firm allows.

Do you think any particular time in my career is easier to take time off for wedding and honeymoon?

[KOMODO]

Articling students are very limited in terms of the vacation they can take, so if you're eager to get married sooner than when you'll be an associate, I would recommend doing it before or after articling, rather than during. Otherwise, most lawyers are very understanding about vacation time for a wedding/honeymoon, so I think you would have a relatively easy time having it approved as a junior associate (i.e., don't feel rushed to get it all done during the break between articling and hireback - it's fine to take extended vacation as an associate if that's what you want to do). There is no career-related need to delay marriage until you are a mid-level associate - many first year associates get married and take time off for their honeymoons. Just give your firm lots of lead time so that you can plan coverage accordingly.

Having kids is a whole other can of worms. There is a post somewhere where I went through the benefits/drawbacks at each stage of a biglaw career (albeit from the perspective of a person who would be pregnant, etc. rather than a non-carrying parent, but many of the same principles apply), however I just looked and can't find it, so it may have been on the old forum. The long story short is that in terms of benefits: the earlier you have kids, the easier it is to have file coverage and minimal disruption to your practice, but the later you have kids, the more credibility you have in respect of taking time off and not being totally on the ball when you return. In terms of drawbacks: the earlier you have kids, the less time you have pre-kids to work crazy hours and get a bunch of experience / develop your technical skills, but the later you have kids, the more you have to lose in terms of client relationships when someone else is covering your matters.

If you are not the person in your relationship who would be pregnant, you are still entitled to take parental leave and should absolutely do so - it's beneficial from both a societal and personal perspective. Understand your firm's top-up policy, consider the amount of time you want to take independent of the policy, and leave yourself time to save enough money to make up the difference. And feel free to come back and ask us further questions if you have them! 

[saltshaker111]

10 minutes ago, KOMODO said:

There is a post somewhere where I went through the benefits/drawbacks at each stage of a biglaw career (albeit from the perspective of a person who would be pregnant, etc. rather than a non-carrying parent, but many of the same principles apply), however I just looked and can't find it, so it may have been on the old forum.

I actually read the post recently because I'm curious myself; the material you seem to be referencing is in your response to another user. 🙂

 

  

[Jaggers]

I waited quite a while to have kids. I really enjoyed my first 10 years of practice, where I worked hard (but not that hard!), we ate out at nice restaurants, traveled, did weekend getaways, long bike rides, and all the fun things you can do without kids dragging you down. And we became quite financially secure before having a kid to worry about.

But there are downsides too. It actually became much harder than I thought to even have a kid. And it's very tiring to chase a toddler around the floor as a 43 year old.

[KOMODO]

1 hour ago, saltshaker111 said:

I actually read the post recently because I'm curious myself; the material you seem to be referencing is in your response to another user. 🙂

 

  

oh perfect, yes, that was it! thanks 🙂

[infoinfoinfo]

5 hours ago, Ramesses said:

Do you think any particular time in my career is easier to take time off for wedding and honeymoon?

Like others have said, if there is one vacation partners or senior associates will respect, it is definitely your honeymoon. I don't think there is a moment that is easier if you're an associate. As a partner it would be considerably more difficult as you have your own clients to manage. 

[Ramesses]

Thanks for the insight, everyone!

Edited April 20, 2022 by Ramesses

[Diplock]

7 hours ago, Ramesses said:

My girlfriend and I are starting to talk about marriage and having kids in the future. 

From a career perspective, is there a better time to get married (i.e. end of articles vs junior associate vs mid-level associate)? What about for having kids?

The best time to get married from a career perspective is whenever you've caught the interest of the richest and most powerful person who's ever likely to be interested in you. And the best time to have children is never.

Both of those answers are stupid, of course, and are mainly intended to illustrate the following. There isn't a good answer to this question. Speaking from personal experience, your personal life is always going to prove inconvenient to your professional goals and aspirations. There may be times when it makes sense to avoid doing things at the worst possible time. I mean, don't schedule a destination wedding in the middle of articles. But don't even try to aim for doing things at the best time. It's an impossible goal and a constantly moving target. Rather, simply decide that when push comes to shove the important personal things in your life (which certainly involve finding and keeping a partner, and having kids) simply need to take precedence over your professional life. Because if you don't decide that in advance, you'll find it never works out in the end.

Hope that helps and good luck.

[Icarus]

1 hour ago, Diplock said:

The best time to get married from a career perspective is whenever you've caught the interest of the richest and most powerful person who's ever likely to be interested in you. And the best time to have children is never.

Both of those answers are stupid, of course, and are mainly intended to illustrate the following. There isn't a good answer to this question. Speaking from personal experience, your personal life is always going to prove inconvenient to your professional goals and aspirations. There may be times when it makes sense to avoid doing things at the worst possible time. I mean, don't schedule a destination wedding in the middle of articles. But don't even try to aim for doing things at the best time. It's an impossible goal and a constantly moving target. Rather, simply decide that when push comes to shove the important personal things in your life (which certainly involve finding and keeping a partner, and having kids) simply need to take precedence over your professional life. Because if you don't decide that in advance, you'll find it never works out in the end.

Hope that helps and good luck.

Can't agree enough. 

[MOL]

Re: having kids - potential organ donors. Just saying.....

[Jaggers]

They can also change your bedpan when you can't afford a third party.

[Aureliuse]

Without a prenup (marriage contract)? Never a good idea to get married. I have seen things... Horrible things...

(I am divorce lawyer 🙂)

Ok my quip aside, a lot of my friends married right out of law school and before they articled.

Others married when they landed their first job as an associate. Some broke up. I found that a lot of my friends had their first child when they were in their early 30s.

It depends on your situation with your partner.

[Hegdis]

Yeah most of my cohort got married just before or just after articling. Most of them then waited five to ten years to have kids - the main reasons being that they had paid down their debt and found a long term home that would work with kids (this looks different to everyone).

I echo the others who say that there’s never a good time. One of the first things pending parenthood teaches you is that you have to take your life seriously, not just your work. So whenever you decide to start a family your whole outlook will change to adapt to that new perspective. As it should. 

[Judgelight]

If you are a government lawyer, the best tune to have a kid is right after you get permanent. Get permanent and then take as much time off as you can while you are on probation. Or so I've been told lol. 

[CleanHands]

17 minutes ago, Judgelight said:

If you are a government lawyer, the best tune to have a kid is right after you get permanent. Get permanent and then take as much time off as you can while you are on probation. Or so I've been told lol. 

And this here is why in the crim world there is a huge gender imbalance with women fleeing from defence to the Crown in droves.

[123]

13 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

And this here is why in the crim world there is a huge gender imbalance with women fleeing from defence to the Crown in droves.

Yup.

[CanadaWater]

On 4/20/2022 at 9:38 AM, Ramesses said:

My girlfriend and I are starting to talk about marriage and having kids in the future. 

From a career perspective, is there a better time to get married (i.e. end of articles vs junior associate vs mid-level associate)? What about for having kids?

Strictly from a biglaw/corporate practice career perspective, having kids as a junior is difficult unless you have an amazing support system (e.g., live-in nanny or extended family in the same house) in place.  The learning curve and hours expectations are most severe early on.  The hours don't necessarily improve as a mid-level, but by year 4 you're usually hitting a pretty good stride and can handle moderately complex files with minimal oversight.  This makes it a lot easier to work with little sleep.

[Conge]

On 4/20/2022 at 2:52 PM, Jaggers said:

I waited quite a while to have kids. I really enjoyed my first 10 years of practice, where I worked hard (but not that hard!), we ate out at nice restaurants, traveled, did weekend getaways, long bike rides, and all the fun things you can do without kids dragging you down. And we became quite financially secure before having a kid to worry about.

But there are downsides too. It actually became much harder than I thought to even have a kid. And it's very tiring to chase a toddler around the floor as a 43 year old.

I took a similar route. I'm in my late thirties with a 4 month old. I was 8 years into lawyering, and my partner over 10 years into her professional career, by the time we were ready. We didn't have any difficulty conceiving, but sometimes I wish we started 5 or even 3 years ago. But in any case, I'm really happy now and happy with how I got here. 

The "work from home" thing has made the whole experience a lot better than it would have been in the past, I think. I worked from home for over two months after the birth, for example, and I work from home 2 days a week now, so I'm just around more often and get to help out more than if wfh wasn't a thing. Sometimes that means taking a call or writing emails with a baby on my lap, but on the whole it's positive. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Conge

[Spreckles]

I don’t think anyone has said this yet so I will. Being lawyers we tend to be planners, risk adverse, often type A and like to be in control. Even that OP’s distinction on timing is as minute as Articling student to junior associate to mid level associate is telling. I had this mindset when I was OP’s age and unfortunately, biology has plans of its own. You may be lucky to conceive on the first try or it may take you years, lots of money and lots of intervention. So just keep in mind you can only plan having children to a certain extent but the rest is up to nature; and know you have to adjust your career expectations accordingly.