Fastest Path From Lesser Known Canadian School to NYC

[CipherEvice]

Hi! I'll be starting at the UoC in September. Currently, I have a big interest in corporate law, specifically/maybe in M&A. I'm aware that big law NYC firms recruit directly from some Canadian schools like UoT, but that they obviously won't be doing OCIs or recruiting at UoC at all. That being said, (and I don't know if I'll be able to do this by any means, but maybe something to try and strive for) if someone had straight As/was on the dean's list, and had some great law ECs at UoC, would it be reasonable or even possible for them to get a 2L summer student job in NYC or to go straight to NYC after 3L? Or would the only chance be to work corporate law in Canada for a couple years and then do a lateral transfer?

[Jaggers]

While firms don't actively recruit, I don't think any firm has an absolute bar on interviewing people from anywhere, so the fastest path is probably to send in an application? If you have the right stuff on your resume, you'd get an interview.

Other than that, working at a Toronto firm for a few years is probably your statistically most likely way in.

[Chemistry124]

You recruit for firms just like any other non-OCI student would: direct applications through the firm's website, emails to the firm's recruiting staff, passing off your materials to people inside the firm, etc. Having said that, American firms are big sticklers for prestige and I would be surprised if you got any bites coming from UoC either through 2L summer recruiting or 3L recruiting (no offence, just being realistic).

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Other than that, working at a Toronto firm for a few years is probably your statistically most likely way in.

This is the answer. However, the market seems to be slowing a bit. The lateral market may not be as heated once you graduate.

If you get straight A's, American firms do hire Canadian grads from top courts (I've seen profiles of grads from the SCC/ONCA/BCCA/FCA). Most go into litigation/regulatory groups, but I have seen corporate associates with these clerkships as well.  But this is putting the cart way before the horse.

[CipherEvice]

20 hours ago, Chemistry124 said:

(no offence, just being realistic).

Oh yeah no offence taken at all, looking for realistic answers. And if working for a couple years in Canada first might be a good way to then transfer, then that might be what I end up doing. Definitely a ways away but good to know just for curiosity's sake. If I do manage to end up with top marks I might end up sending an application their way but we will see if I can do that lol.

Would working in Toronto specifically really be that much of an advantage compared to working at a Calgary firm?

[JohnsonWest]

58 minutes ago, CipherEvice said:

Oh yeah no offence taken at all, looking for realistic answers. And if working for a couple years in Canada first might be a good way to then transfer, then that might be what I end up doing. Definitely a ways away but good to know just for curiosity's sake. If I do manage to end up with top marks I might end up sending an application their way but we will see if I can do that lol.

Would working in Toronto specifically really be that much of an advantage compared to working at a Calgary firm?

you can go from a top national firm's office in calgary to NYC. i've seen this happen. however your best bet is certainly toronto or vancouver, with toronto being the #1 choice. 

[Chemistry124]

On 5/21/2022 at 5:56 PM, CipherEvice said:

Oh yeah no offence taken at all, looking for realistic answers. And if working for a couple years in Canada first might be a good way to then transfer, then that might be what I end up doing. Definitely a ways away but good to know just for curiosity's sake. If I do manage to end up with top marks I might end up sending an application their way but we will see if I can do that lol.

Would working in Toronto specifically really be that much of an advantage compared to working at a Calgary firm?

It's all about transferable practices when lateralling. There's more of the work that's easy transferable to the States in Toronto than anywhere else in the country, primarily in the transactional space. I would put Calgary over Vancouver tho (but don't quote me on this).

Honestly, this is getting the cart way before the horse. If you miss out on OCI/articling recruitment, it could add years to your plan as you would then have to work on lateralling to a Canadian biglaw firm before trying to hop to an American firm. Also, this hot market has really distorted the perception of how easy it is to lateral to the States. Canadian and other common law lawyers have always managed to lateral to the US, but in the last 1.5 years some American firms have basically taken any experienced transactional lawyer with a pulse. It seems like the lateral market is already starting to plateau, if not very slightly cool, compared to last year.

[Patient0L]

If you want to work in the US, why not to go to school in the US?

[erin otoole]

1 hour ago, Patient0L said:

If you want to work in the US, why not to go to school in the US?

I'm a Dual JD so I guess I can answer, many reasons as a Canadian not to go to an American School 

1. Tougher curves at most schools;

2. Tricky for Canadians to get meaningful clerkships;

3. Cost;

4. Student visas can be stressful for a Canadian who has never had to deal with immigration;

5. Much more difficult to get into a "good" American school compared to a "good" Canadian school; and 

6. Windsor and Rye kids have an outside chance at Big Law, not the same at middling American law schools. 

The list goes on, its a deeply personal choice. I very much enjoyed my time at an American Law school, Detroit Mercy made me a better "thinker" than Windsor did, but the usefulness of my American bankruptcy law course I spent weeks studying isquestionable at best while I article. Personally having experienced what I have, I would tell students to go to a Canadian Law school, and do an exchange in the US instead of some tropical location or England like many do. Best of both worlds in my mind. 

Edited May 23, 2022 by erin otoole

[ramoj]

4 minutes ago, erin otoole said:

I'm a Dual JD so I guess I can answer, many reasons as a Canadian not to go to an American School 

1. Tougher curves at most schools;

2. Tricky for Canadians to get meaningful clerkships;

3. Cost;

4. Student visas can be stressful for a Canadian who has never had to deal with immigration;

5. Much more difficult to get into a "good" American school compared to a "good" Canadian school; and 

6. Windsor and Rye kids have an outside chance at Big Law, not the same at middling American law schools. 

The list goes on, its a deeply personal choice. I very much enjoyed my time at an American Law school, Detroit Mercy made me a better "thinker" than Windsor did, but the usefulness of my American bankruptcy law course I spent weeks studying it questionable at best while I article. Personally having experienced what I have, I would tell students to go to a Canadian Law school, and do an exchange in the US instead of some tropical location or England like many do. Best of both worlds in my mind. 

Additionally with the right grades from a more "well-known" Canadian school, you can get to NYC/Boston.

[Patient0L]

6 hours ago, erin otoole said:

I'm a Dual JD so I guess I can answer, many reasons as a Canadian not to go to an American School 

1. Tougher curves at most schools;

2. Tricky for Canadians to get meaningful clerkships;

3. Cost;

4. Student visas can be stressful for a Canadian who has never had to deal with immigration;

5. Much more difficult to get into a "good" American school compared to a "good" Canadian school; and 

6. Windsor and Rye kids have an outside chance at Big Law, not the same at middling American law schools. 

The list goes on, its a deeply personal choice. I very much enjoyed my time at an American Law school, Detroit Mercy made me a better "thinker" than Windsor did, but the usefulness of my American bankruptcy law course I spent weeks studying isquestionable at best while I article. Personally having experienced what I have, I would tell students to go to a Canadian Law school, and do an exchange in the US instead of some tropical location or England like many do. Best of both worlds in my mind. 

I’m not sure what OP’s stats are, but I’d think one would be more likely to get a job in NYC by going somewhere like Fordham (which doesn’t require Ivy level stats) than U of C.

[AHLALA]

(Canadian) Big Law M&A associate here. The only thing I would add to the discussion is that there is timing element to this. In the past year and a half, everyone who had relevant experience in corporate law and was interested in moving to NYC (or, more generally, to the US) made the move. Some of the people I studied with lateraled to NY and had pretty average / below average grades, no clerkship (which isn't really a relevant experience for corporate law) and hadn't studied at UofT or Osgoode. 

Things have already slowed down a bit, but I still receive the occasional email / LinkedIn message from NYC recruiters. 

Advices posted above are good. Some things are somewhat under your control (grades, networking, ...) and some things aren't (mostly market conditions). You might finish your degree during a recession and you'll be happy to find any articling position in Calgary or Toronto. The current M&A frenzy might also continue and you'll get offers from multiple NYC firms. I agree with the other posters that the more realistic outcome is that you'll do a few years in Toronto, while looking for the right opportunity. 

[CipherEvice]

17 hours ago, Patient0L said:

I’m not sure what OP’s stats are, but I’d think one would be more likely to get a job in NYC by going somewhere like Fordham (which doesn’t require Ivy level stats) than U of C.

I wouldn't say my goal is to work at a NYC firm, it's just something I've been pondering over the last little bit. I definitely want to keep my mind open to any opportunities that might come my way during law school or to being swayed to do something completely unrelated to corporate law. This just seemed to be an appealing option and I didn't find many useful results when I searched the forum and google with my question so just wanted some input. As someone else also said, this is putting the cart way before the horse, which I would agree with, I'm just kind of asking questions out of curiosity at this point as I'm kind of excited/looking ahead. Lots of time to make decisions!

Edited May 24, 2022 by CipherEvice

[erin otoole]

17 hours ago, Patient0L said:

I’m not sure what OP’s stats are, but I’d think one would be more likely to get a job in NYC by going somewhere like Fordham (which doesn’t require Ivy level stats) than U of C.

You are correct that Fordham places well in big law, 155 of their grads work at 500+ lawyer firms. But their admissions are tough still albeit below ivy, 50th percentile is a 166 and 3.71. 

25 minutes ago, CipherEvice said:

 I'm just kind of asking questions out of curiosity at this point as I'm kind of excited/looking ahead. Lots of time to make decisions!

Kirkland and Ellis has a few UofC grads that work for them, so kids can end up in American big law. If you are an admit at any school grads are almost always happy to answer emails about their experience. I have emailed dozens of Windsor grads around the world and about 90% reply and set up a virtual coffee meeting with me. Don't be afraid to reach out to your future alumni network and ask questions. 

[Pantalaimon]

1 hour ago, CipherEvice said:

I wouldn't say my goal is to work at a NYC firm, it's just something I've been pondering over the last little bit. I definitely want to keep my mind open to any opportunities that might come my way during law school or to being swayed to do something completely unrelated to corporate law. This just seemed to be an appealing option and I didn't find many useful results when I searched the forum and google with my question so just wanted some input. As someone else also said, this is putting the cart way before the horse, which I would agree with, I'm just kind of asking questions out of curiosity at this point as I'm kind of excited/looking ahead. Lots of time to make decisions!

UCalgary has a dual degree program with the University of Houston. I think you need a demonstrated interest in energy law or something, but something to look into if you want American options.

[dgen]

Both me and my good buddy graduated out of UofA/UofC, was at top Canadian big law firms, and subsequent lateraled into a V5 in CA. Also got offers in NY. But it was during a hot market though. 

Edited June 10, 2022 by dgen