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Legal jobs that actually have a work life balance


turtle2000

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turtle2000
  • Law Student

I just finished 1L, and am looking for careers in law that actually will give me a work life balance. Not the law "work life balance" where you only have to work Saturdays and 5 evenings a week. A job where the vast majority of the time I am working 9-5, the work is steady but not insanely stressful or overwhelming.

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AllRise
  • Law Student
7 minutes ago, turtle2000 said:

I just finished 1L, and am looking for careers in law that actually will give me a work life balance. Not the law "work life balance" where you only have to work Saturdays and 5 evenings a week. A job where the vast majority of the time I am working 9-5, the work is steady but not insanely stressful or overwhelming.

I can only speak from the perspective of another 1L student summering with a firm, but from what I gather, practices solely focused in real estate could likely give a work life balance similar to what you are looking for once you are established. 

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Rashabon
  • Lawyer
22 minutes ago, AllRise said:

I can only speak from the perspective of another 1L student summering with a firm, but from what I gather, practices solely focused in real estate could likely give a work life balance similar to what you are looking for once you are established. 

I assume you mean a residential real estate practice? CRE will work as crazy hours as anybody depending on the firm. Residential real estate is also not quite work-life balance if you want to make a living, since it's a volume business. You need to market yourself a lot and become the top name on a lot of realtors' rolodex in order to make a living on what is mostly filling out forms.

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Kimura
  • Lawyer

Solicitor working in government comes to mind, as well as in-house counsel positions. 

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Dream Machine
  • Lawyer

Government jobs. But beware that this isn't all government jobs.

Solo practice.

Some firms in smaller centres (i.e. not Toronto). 

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ZineZ
  • Lawyer

I'll put out a word of caution on the government job bit.

Yes, the work-life balance is better. But working past 5 is definitely not out of the question, same with working weekends. If there's an emergency, a bill that needs to be drafted or if you're in the middle of labour negotiations - you will be working into the evening. 

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AllRise
  • Law Student
17 hours ago, Rashabon said:

I assume you mean a residential real estate practice? CRE will work as crazy hours as anybody depending on the firm. Residential real estate is also not quite work-life balance if you want to make a living, since it's a volume business. You need to market yourself a lot and become the top name on a lot of realtors' rolodex in order to make a living on what is mostly filling out forms.

My experience is limited, only speaking with regards to the firms that I have been exposed to thus far in a smaller city outside of Toronto. The firm I am currently working for does residential and commercial real estate, has around 30 employees and it fairly well known locally, and the office closes at 5pm and everyone heads home around then for the most part. This is certainly an anecdotal experience though. 

Agree with the statement regarding marketing, this is an established firm I am speaking about, so likely they were much busier with marketing and establishing their client base many years ago when it first opened. 

Edited by AllRise
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I have a pretty cushy in-house job. It's mostly 9-5:30ish. There are definitely times when I have to step in during an evening or weekend because things just happen then, but it's not that often. My regular workload definitely does not involve evenings or weekends.

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Garfield
  • Articling Student

I’d be interested to from someone who can speak to work life balance in solo practice, specifying the area[s] of law they practice + approximately how long they have been in solo practice, since I’d imagine the stage of one’s solo practice would affect work life balance.

Edited by Garfield
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OntheVerge
  • Lawyer

I'd say residential real estate has a fairly good work-life balance but you also can't expect to be out of the office by 5:00 or 5:30 every day, either. When the market was booming, 10 hour days weren't unusual, same with going in on weekends. Staying late on a Friday at the end of the month because a deal (or 3) didn't close isn't unusual, whether the market is crazy or not. If a deal needs to be extended or something has gone wrong (which seems to be almost every file these days), you can't just walk out because it's 5:00 p.m. I routinely don't make plans before 6:30 p.m. because I don't know if I'm going to stay to put out a fire.

Still, overall the balance is better than a lot of other areas of law. But I disagree with the notion that it's strict 9-5 hours on a given day.

 

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ZineZ
  • Lawyer
23 minutes ago, OntheVerge said:

But I disagree with the notion that it's strict 9-5 hours on a given day.

IMHO this is where OP may need a general note of caution (my second one in this thread!). While there are areas of the law where things are calmer than others, I am unsure about whether there are any areas of law where things are a strict 9-5. Our profession often does have to fire fight/litigate/help out generally, and that can often be time-sensitive. And this requirement exists regardless of whether you're in government/sole prac/real estate etc. 

Work-life balance is absolutely possible, and you can chase it down. But set your expectations towards something that's more 9-5/6ishish, but with the expectation that you'll work later once in a bit.

 

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2 hours ago, Garfield said:

I’d be interested to from someone who can speak to work life balance in solo practice, specifying the area[s] of law they practice + approximately how long they have been in solo practice, since I’d imagine the stage of one’s solo practice would affect work life balance.

It varies wildly.

If you're in charge, you generally have some flexibility in deciding which specific hours you work. But you're also responsible for a lot of the firm's activity. The demands which emanate from those responsibilities are completely different based upon practice area, staffing, and how much work you've taken on.

Sole practice is just a practice structure. It doesn’t necessarily say all that much about the nature or quantity of your work. 

Edited by realpseudonym
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KOMODO
  • Lawyer

You may also want to consider "JD Advantage" jobs rather than actually practicing, or an area where you could have a significantly reduced hours requirement / work part time. I think the challenge you'll face with the latter is that it's easier to negotiate that once you have a few years of practice under your belt.

I agree with Rashabon that you're not looking for commercial real estate - I was up working till 1am last night for the 3rd time this week. I still think that commercial real estate provides on average a slightly better lifestyle than some of the other biglaw specialties, but it's nowhere near what you're describing - it's still a full time job and a half, on a good day. But I do minimal or no work most weekends, see my kid in the evening, and rarely get surprised by an emergency (most of my stuff is volume related, i.e., found out about a task last week but couldn't get to it until this week because there was so much other stuff going on). So I like it. But I would not recommend it to OP. 

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Phaedrus
  • Lawyer

Rural practice tends to offer a much better work-life balance. The trade off is you're making significantly less than your peers. 

A while ago, Diplock wrote a post about lawyering being a lifestyle and not a job you pick up and set down when you enter and leave the office (the post may have been on LS.ca). It was helpful, specifically to the point that the career isn't one that you can intellectually or pragmatically separate from your non-work life. In the context of finding a cushy law job, the realistic expectation is that you're going to work beyond office hours no matter where you practice - it's a matter of by how much and how often. That's the price of occupying a privileged position in society. 

For the first few years of practice, it's an uphill fight to teach yourself new areas of law and get yourself up to speed with the nuance. Most of that time is non-billable or non-attributable to a client file. It's basic competency and it's your responsibility to do it. In practice, you'll still have billable targets or, if in-house or government, work that just has to get done. So, sure you might be in the office from 9-5, but it's incredibly reasonable to expect to have to take time before/after hours to learn what you have to learn to competently do your job. There's no avoiding it, and it's foolish to think otherwise. Again, that's the cost of the privilege, responsibility, and freedom that comes with being a lawyer. Being in a non-inhouse gig, I can mostly come and go when I want, schedule vacation when I want, and attend appointments without having to ask for permission. But the buck stops with me, and that means I regularly work longer hours or find myself reading work-related materials in evenings and weekends.

Edited by Phaedrus
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2 hours ago, KOMODO said:

I agree with Rashabon that you're not looking for commercial real estate - I was up working till 1am last night for the 3rd time this week. 

An important caveat is that you work at a firm. I don't think Tridel's counsel are working till 1 AM. I'll concede, however, that you'll probably have to go through the biglaw meatgrinder first to get that kind of job. 

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Serious question, why did you go to law school? 
 

If your primary goal is just a job that is 9-5, I’m not sure being a lawyer is a great career path. I suspect this isn’t your actual primary goal as most people who enter law school are fairly studious and hardworking. I recommend on focusing on why you wanted to be a lawyer in the first place, rather than what job you can get which will enable you to make as much as possible while working 9 to 5 (because the answer isn’t a law job).

 

The stereotype of lawyers working a lot exists because it is true, especially in the first few years. 

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t3ctonics
  • Lawyer

I've been in a public sector in-house role that's been basically 9-5 except for very rare occasions (e.g. if something in my area pops up right before an arbitration I might have to work late). When I was more junior I had to work later a little more, as well as at the start of the pandemic when my main area (labour and employment) exploded. Now I almost never work under another lawyer and I can delegate work myself, so I can manage my own personal workload a little better. If I were to stick around and get promoted further I'd have to work late a little more often again due to attending executive leadership and board meetings that tend to run into the evening. And probably having to deal with the occasional thing personally that I couldn't delegate because it's too sensitive for some reason. But even that would probably just be working into the evening maybe twice a month, versus a handful of times a year at present.

I've also recently been offered two private sector in-house positions expressly intended to be 9-5, with the option (and budget) to retain external counsel at my discretion if I get too busy. However, these are mid-sized regional companies. Bigger companies, especially multinationals, tend to have more demanding expectations (and pay more). I interviewed for a position with a multinational last year and they were up front about needing availability outside of regular office hours and being a very lean legal office (read: extremely busy). I know a lawyer in that office and he works late fairly regularly and has to travel for work for a few days once a month, though his hours are still more regular and lower than biglaw. Hell, I know the GC of the Canadian arm of a multinational mining company and he says he's less busy and is home in the evening more often than when he was an associate at a large firm.

Note: I'm using "9-5" loosely. I don't think any legal employer I've dealt with had actual 9-5 hours. Most "9-5" offices start at 8-8:30 and close at 5:00 (some public sector ones earlier) and people are just expected to work 7.5-8 hours a day. At my current office and one of the companies I got an offer from, hours are 8:30-5:00. At the other company they had "core hours" of 9-3:30 that you have to be available, but you could start and stop whenever you wanted outside of those hours.

 

EDIT: I just wanted to emphasize that it is possible to have a basically 9-5 job in this profession. I have one, as do 12 other lawyers I know personally, and many more that are pretty close. You have to give up a bit of earning potential (but still certainly make enough for a comfortable lifestyle - like top 2-5% of incomes in Canada), and landing the best ones usually require putting in some time in private practice to get the experience they want. But they do exist.

Also, an established small firm practice in a small city or town can be less than 9-5 while living a pretty lavish lifestyle due to the low cost of living. Only a good option if you like small town life though.

Edited by t3ctonics
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Bachtowork
  • Articling Student
1 hour ago, ZineZ said:

I'm not sure if I agree with this. Folks want to be lawyers for a variety of reasons, and I don't think it's necessarily fair to judge someone for wanting to meet a career goal and also have a life outside of work hours.  

A semblance of work-life balance is possible in this profession, and I won't blame OP for wanting to have it while pursuing a profession they worked hard to enter. 

 

 

In my case, I didn't really care that much initially about work life balance, but after 2 years of law school, I realized the kind of life I want and that work life balance is very important to me, for someone with my disposition. So I am hoping I can still be a lawyer (that the time and money spent on my legal education hasn't been wasted) and have a schedule that is sustainable for me. 

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1 hour ago, Cool_name said:

Serious question, why did you go to law school? 
 

If your primary goal is just a job that is 9-5, I’m not sure being a lawyer is a great career path. I suspect this isn’t your actual primary goal as most people who enter law school are fairly studious and hardworking. I recommend on focusing on why you wanted to be a lawyer in the first place, rather than what job you can get which will enable you to make as much as possible while working 9 to 5 (because the answer isn’t a law job).

 

The stereotype of lawyers working a lot exists because it is true, especially in the first few years. 

Being studious and hardworking and wanting work-life balance are not mutually exclusive.

People who want children, people with disabilities, and anyone with other life goals that aren't work-related can also be hard working and be passionate about practicing law, without wanting to work excessive hours.

 

Echoing comments above about government jobs - I know of lawyers in non-litigation public sector positions that rarely work evenings/weekends.

Edited by Cajamz
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ZineZ
  • Lawyer
15 minutes ago, Bachtowork said:

In my case, I didn't really care that much initially about work life balance, but after 2 years of law school, I realized the kind of life I want and that work life balance is very important to me, for someone with my disposition. So I am hoping I can still be a lawyer (that the time and money spent on my legal education hasn't been wasted) and have a schedule that is sustainable for me. 

This is a common theme amongst many of my colleagues at the moment - the pandemic has reinforced the need for "balance".

 

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I have fantastic work-life balance, which I got by moving into government policy (I write income tax legislation). That being said, you learn a lot from a couple years working hard.

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Bachtowork
  • Articling Student
3 hours ago, ZineZ said:

This is a common theme amongst many of my colleagues at the moment - the pandemic has reinforced the need for "balance".

 

I heard that too. As I get older (mid 20s now), I find I care less and less about money and prestige. I feel life is passing by so quickly and I have been stressed and miserable for most of it - really want to find a way to have a more peaceful and enjoyable life while still working hard and helping people, and while pursuing other goals as well. 

4 hours ago, Cajamz said:

 

Being studious and hardworking and wanting work-life balance are not mutually exclusive.

People who want children, people with disabilities, and anyone with other life goals that aren't work-related can also be hard working and be passionate about practicing law, without wanting to work excessive hours.

 

Echoing comments above about government jobs - I know of lawyers in non-litigation public sector positions that rarely work evenings/weekends.

And many of us who want work life balance are okay with a much lower salary. 

What kind of non litigation public sector positions are there? Most of the ones I have heard of involve litigation. 

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4 hours ago, Bachtowork said:

What kind of non litigation public sector positions are there? Most of the ones I have heard of involve litigation. 

I believe that many lawyers at both DOJ and MAG (Ontario) work in counsel positions that mainly involve advisory and solicitor-type work. There are also lawyers who do legislative drafting and policy development work. 

Also worth noting that your client's business hours and work culture can affect when you are expected to be available. If your job mainly involves giving legal advice to public servants who work more "9-5" business hours, then you probably won't have the same hours as a lawyer working with private sector clients who regularly expect them to be available on demand late at night or on weekends.

Of course, these different roles/expectations usually come with lower pay - but as you said, many lawyers are okay with that trade-off.

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Dream Machine
  • Lawyer

FWIW I know of a couple people who work at MAG, one works about Bay hours (compared to the Bay firms with lower hours), and the other not as much as that, but definitely not 9-5, more.

Edited by Dream Machine
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