Summer Student to Articling

[WUDALA]

When do summer students typically find out that they will be hired back for articling (a written offer)? I've heard people at the firm say things to imply it but did not get a offer

[gingerbeer]

Firm dependant. Could be within your first month or in during your last week. 

[easttowest]

I’d you’re at a large firm I’d be astounded if they didn’t bring back 100% of the summers to article.

[halamadrid]

On 6/21/2022 at 9:54 AM, easttowest said:

I’d you’re at a large firm I’d be astounded if they didn’t bring back 100% of the summers to article.

Pretty sure it is unless you screw up in a major way 

[easttowest]

19 hours ago, halamadrid said:

Pretty sure it is unless you screw up in a major way 

You’d almost certainly have to do more than screw up something to do with the actual work. Like, do something that you’d actually be fired for with cause anyway. 

[halamadrid]

3 hours ago, easttowest said:

You’d almost certainly have to do more than screw up something to do with the actual work. Like, do something that you’d actually be fired for with cause anyway. 

So I guess throwing a bachelor party in the office is no longer possible.

 

[capitalttruth]

Wish this was the same for government. There doesn't seem to be the same automatic pipeline from summer student to articling in the provincial government.

[babylawyer87]

How different is the articling experience compared to the summer student experience at a Bay Street firm? Trying to get a sense of why people find it more difficult (other than the increased amount of work/responsibility you have). 

Edited June 29, 2022 by babylawyer87

[Rashabon]

1 hour ago, babylawyer87 said:

How different is the articling experience compared to the summer student experience at a Bay Street firm? Trying to get a sense of why people find it more difficult (other than the increased amount of work/responsibility you have). 

You answered the question for the most part. You also have a lot more time there so you don't get to dip out, expectations are higher because you're not there in the summer when work is slower and we know you're incredibly knew to all this, you're auditioning for a job instead of guaranteed return for articling, etc.

[cherrytree]

  

1 hour ago, babylawyer87 said:

How different is the articling experience compared to the summer student experience at a Bay Street firm? Trying to get a sense of why people find it more difficult (other than the increased amount of work/responsibility you have). 

1. The strategic aspect of articling requires some foresight, information gathering, and networking within the firm. Most students working on Bay don't go into articling knowing exactly what practice group they want to end up in as an associate, and your chosen rotations in articling will hopefully give you a decent level of knowledge and experience, so you can make an informed decision. If you are at a large Bay St firm, the worry may not be about whether you will be hired back by the firm, but it is about making a decision that carries a certain weight and finality regarding the start of your legal career. There is a competitive side to articling that you don't experience during the summer, because depending on the practice group you want and the firm you are at, you may want to make sure you rank ahead of at least x students to feel confident about your hireback offer. All of this ongoing uncertainty stretched over 10 months can be exhausting.
2. Depending on the level of support and quality of student program management at the firm, students facing challenges during articling may feel super supported and comfortable about reaching out for guidance and help, or they may feel too intimidated and mistrustful to make their issues known. In the latter case, the lack of support and fear for negative reactions may amplify existing issues. This is where a toxic workplace culture can have a significantly negative impact and make articling a much tougher experience than it has to be. Having to get through 10 months of hard work in a toxic culture, knowing that you have no choice but to stick it out in order to get licensed, versus having to get through 3 months of summering in a place that you haven't committed to article at, can feel very different when you're going through it.

[QMT20]

On 6/13/2022 at 3:32 PM, WUDALA said:

When do summer students typically find out that they will be hired back for articling (a written offer)? I've heard people at the firm say things to imply it but did not get a offer

My class found out in the 8th week of our summer term. I have never heard of anyone not receiving an offer to return for articling. The people who left after the summer went to clerk. 

On 6/24/2022 at 8:29 PM, capitalttruth said:

Wish this was the same for government. There doesn't seem to be the same automatic pipeline from summer student to articling in the provincial government.

My understanding is it's not. MAG makes you compete for contracts. That continues even after you article. There's often multiple articling students for a single Crown position and then your first position is a fixed term contract and you have to apply and earn your next contract. I don't know what it's like once you're more senior at MAG but that's been the experience of my peers. However, I think they do hire back some of their summer students for articling and I know two people who that received articling offers after their summer. 

1 hour ago, babylawyer87 said:

How different is the articling experience compared to the summer student experience at a Bay Street firm? Trying to get a sense of why people find it more difficult (other than the increased amount of work/responsibility you have). 

I found summer more difficult than articling but that was not the experience of many of my peers. It's partly firm dependent. Some firms are known to take it easy on summer students and then break your back as an articling student. A few of my friends who went to those firms didn't enjoy their articling experiences and described feeling "catfished" by their firm. I found the workload during the summer and articling at my firm was pretty similar, and articling was easier because I was more efficient, I was more confident, and I knew more people in my group. 

I found there are two main changes to work between the summer and articling. First, you'll be staffed on more long-term files and you have more opportunities to accumulate knowledge as the file evolves. That makes it easier to be more efficient when you have to do research or draft something because you have the background knowledge and you know where everything is. Second, over the course of articling, you'll get more carriage and responsibility over your files. During the summer, most of what I did was legal research and drafting specific sections of factums and other documents. Especially towards the end of articling, it was more common to be handed a file, be told what hearing or deadline is coming up, and being asked to just get the initial drafts of everything ready, then working with the partner or associate on subsequent drafts.