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2023 MAG Salary Increases


Judgelight

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Judgelight
  • Lawyer

Inspired by the "big law" salary thread, I thought I'd post MAG increase rates for 2023. IMO, these salaries are the absolute minimum any lawyer in the city of Toronto should be getting paid. If you are getting paid less than what MAG pays, start looking for a new job.

 

1st year starting: 93k~

2nd year starting: 98k~

3rd year starting: 104k~

4th year starting: 110k~

5th year starting: 117k~

6th year starting: 128k~

CC3: 137k - 225k

 

Private sector reference: https://www.zsa.ca/salary-guide/

Edited by Judgelight
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frankconners
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I know salary isn’t the biggest draw for going into government (hours, type of work, pension etc.) but my goodness the difference in these numbers compared to Big Law…

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infoinfoinfo
10 hours ago, frankconners said:

I know salary isn’t the biggest draw for going into government (hours, type of work, pension etc.) but my goodness the difference in these numbers compared to Big Law…

I work in big law and even though I virtually make twice I'm still not sure it's worth it, lol. 

You're right re: pension. Last time I calculated with conservative assumptions, here in Qc the pension plan was worth about 35k for a 100k salary (plus the ease of mind during markets turmoil that it is defined benefits)

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Judgelight
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10 hours ago, infoinfoinfo said:

I work in big law and even though I virtually make twice I'm still not sure it's worth it, lol. 

You're right re: pension. Last time I calculated with conservative assumptions, here in Qc the pension plan was worth about 35k for a 100k salary (plus the ease of mind during markets turmoil that it is defined benefits)

If my job was 9 - 5, I'd absolutely agree with you. The problem is that it isn't. 

How many 3 year civil litigators are doing complex trials on a weekly basis, on their own? Even monthly?

I have colleagues that haven't had a prep day in months. Would you run 3 - 4, 1 week trials in 2 months with 4 days of prep between the trials lol (so 4 days for all of them)?

The problem isn't necessarily salary, its lack of job stability (the constant re-interviewing and stress from lack of stability), the lack of prep-time and the lack of any real meaningful education or mentorship.

10 hours ago, infoinfoinfo said:

You're right re: pension. Last time I calculated with conservative assumptions, here in Qc the pension plan was worth about 35k for a 100k salary (plus the ease of mind during markets turmoil that it is defined benefits)

 

Assuming the pension is worth 35k for 100k, the salary is still not comparable to the private sector. (we're talking about a difference of 40k alone a year, which increases rapidly year on year).

Edited by Judgelight
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happydude
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I would be curious if anybody has ever quantified the value of a defined benefit government pension plan in the context of a government lawyer specifically?

Everyone knows that a defined benefit government pension plan is extremely valuable. But they are worth even more the higher your base salary gets. Let's say your pension pays you 75% of your max salary in retirement (which is approximately where most government pensions land?). When people think of civil servants, they often think of more senior rank and file government employees, that max out at around 100k. But, at their career peak, most government lawyers would be earning 200k+. That will see them collecting around 150k in retirement, indexed to inflation, every year, indefinitely, until they die. People are living longer and longer. They could be collecting that for over 30 years! That is a monstrous retirement package. The need not independently save for retirement (although I am understand pension deductions come off your paycheck in government) is also a really nice.

Generally, government jobs also have much better work-life balance. How much you prioritize that will vary from person to person. But I know for me, it holds absolutely the immense value. Although it is my understanding that some government shops are, in fact, extremely busy and high stress - on par with their Bay Street counterparts.

Obviously, you can make so much more money on Bay Street if you stay long term vs. government that any lack of a pension becomes completely irrelevant, and the Bay Steet lawyer can come out way ahead investing their additional income wisely. But most individuals do not stay on Bay Street long-term. Based on my anecdotal observations from the outside, it seems to me that most government lawyers stay there their entire career (perhaps expectedly so, to max their pension's value value and make their overall compensation package more palatable). So perhaps the more appropriate comparable is not Bay Street firms, but rather, in-house positions?

Even considering the above, I am surprised the salaries in government are so low. Hopefully, they increase soon. But I would not bet on it. It seems most salaries in the public sector are currently froozen or capped at 1% increases etc.

 

 

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whereverjustice
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I am a lawyer in the Ontario public sector.

1 hour ago, happydude said:

I would be curious if anybody has ever quantified the value of a defined benefit government pension plan in the context of a government lawyer specifically?

The way I quantify it, for quick-and-dirty purposes, is to just look at the amount of the employer contribution on my paystub. That's not the full full value because it doesn't account for the government guarantee of the pension fund's obligations, but it's what's readily available.

In the year 2020 I entered my 9th year of call. I made about $150K. My employer and I each paid a little over $14K in pension contributions. My employer-paid health benefits were in the range of 4-6K. 

1 hour ago, happydude said:

So perhaps the more appropriate comparable is not Bay Street firms, but rather, in-house positions?

Certainly when I imagine what it might be like to change jobs, I'm invariably picturing an in-house position. Either at a public body or a corporation. I can't imagine going to a firm at this point in my career - I don't think I have the expected skills. (I do not know what "business development" actually involves but I'm sure it would be hilarious to see me attempt it.)

Edited by whereverjustice
reword opening
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TheAEGIS
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On 6/22/2022 at 9:19 AM, Judgelight said:

Inspired by the "big law" salary thread, I thought I'd post MAG increase rates for 2023. IMO, these salaries are the absolute minimum any lawyer in the city of Toronto should be getting paid. If you are getting paid less than what MAG pays, start looking for a new job.

 

1st year starting: 93k~

2nd year starting: 98k~

3rd year starting: 104k~

4th year starting: 110k~

5th year starting: 117k~

6th year starting: 128k~

CC3: 137k - 225k

 

Private sector reference: https://www.zsa.ca/salary-guide/

Well ... I guess it's time to fire up the old resume.
The DOJ is worse than this if you can believe it.

Edited by TheAEGIS
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