Jump to content

Second cycle applying to law schools, is there any hope for me?


KitKatPattyWat

Recommended Posts

KitKatPattyWat
  • Applicant

As the title states, this is my second cycle applying to law schools after being rejected from every school I applied to last year. My stats are: L2: 3.29 LSAT: 163

I've applied to UNB, USask, Queens, Osgoode, uOttawa, TRU, Lakehead, UAlberta. So far I've been rejected from all of them except uOttawa, Queens, and USask as I have yet to hear back from them. I've been waitlisted at TRU which I am very grateful for. Unfortunately, I was going through an abusive relationship in my second and third year which made it difficult for me to fully be into my studies. I did well in my last year of university, but it wasn't enough to make up for my previous semesters. I didn't apply access as I didn't know how the admissions committee would view this and I wasn't sure how I would prove this through documentation. 

I've tried raising my LSAT score as well as redoing my personal statement for this cycle, but I am losing hope as the cycle is almost over. It has always been my dream to go to law school so I will try again next cycle if I am unsuccessful this one. I plan on taking the LSAT again and hopefully getting it up to the 170s to make up for my poor GPA and rewriting my personal statement again. Is there anything else I can do that would help my application? Thank you in advance! 

Edited by KitKatPattyWat
Link to comment
Share on other sites

AllRise
  • Law Student

There is absolutely hope. You have a below average L2 GPA and great LSAT score, plenty have been have been accepted with less, myself included (cGPA was slightly higher, LSAT was much lower). 

I see that you have applied broadly, and even though you likely have your reasons for not doing so already, but I would encourage you to expand even further and include Western and Windsor in your Ontario applications. For most, law school will be law school, and all I mean by that is most firms aren't seeing you didn't go to UoT or Osgoode and throwing your application out. If you've already applied to that many schools might as well add two more. 

Application wise, it might be a good idea to have a current law student (someone you can trust) review your application and give you feedback. Hard to advise how to improve an application without knowing the quality of the writing or the content. Obviously it is an intensely private document, so I reiterate you want to do this with someone you trust. I say law student because they will be familiar with the application process and likely have the most relevant, helpful feedback. 

With regards to your application, ensure you include ALL working experience. Even if it's fast food. Every lawyer I've spoken to and worked with cared a lot more about my work experience than my grades. It may be different for you if you aren't a mature student, but work experience still demonstrates responsibility, maturity and if you were actually in fast food, the patience of a saint. 

Hope that helps! 

Edited by AllRise
lacking specificity.
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

KitKatPattyWat
  • Applicant
1 hour ago, AllRise said:

There is absolutely hope. You have a below average L2 GPA and great LSAT score, plenty have been have been accepted with less, myself included (cGPA was slightly higher, LSAT was much lower). 

I see that you have applied broadly, and even though you likely have your reasons for not doing so already, but I would encourage you to expand even further and include Western and Windsor in your Ontario applications. For most, law school will be law school, and all I mean by that is most firms aren't seeing you didn't go to UoT or Osgoode and throwing your application out. If you've already applied to that many schools might as well add two more. 

Application wise, it might be a good idea to have a current law student (someone you can trust) review your application and give you feedback. Hard to advise how to improve an application without knowing the quality of the writing or the content. Obviously it is an intensely private document, so I reiterate you want to do this with someone you trust. I say law student because they will be familiar with the application process and likely have the most relevant, helpful feedback. 

With regards to your application, ensure you include ALL working experience. Even if it's fast food. Every lawyer I've spoken to and worked with cared a lot more about my work experience than my grades. It may be different for you if you aren't a mature student, but work experience still demonstrates responsibility, maturity and if you were actually in fast food, the patience of a saint. 

Hope that helps! 

Thank you for taking the time to write such a kind message! I wanted to apply to Windsor but unfortunately, I didn't have any good non-academic references at the time. I do now, so I will definitely be applying to Windsor next cycle if I don't get in anywhere this one. I would honestly love to attend any law school that accepts me.

I do think my personal statement could be better so I will take your advice and have some more people look it over. 

Thank you again!

Edited by KitKatPattyWat
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Damages
  • Lawyer

If your final year or L30 GPA is great, then you could consider doing a 1 year professional master program (full-time courses) to raise L2 or L60 GPA and increase your chance at UAlberta and Dal, or at "drop" schools like UNB and UManitoba. These schools include grad courses in calculation of admission GPA. Many lawyers have graduate degrees and you can leverage your graduate degree to stand out in the market as a lawyer later.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

KitKatPattyWat
  • Applicant
10 minutes ago, Damages said:

If your final year or L30 GPA is great, then you could consider doing a 1 year professional master program (full-time courses) to raise L2 or L60 GPA and increase your chance at UAlberta and Dal, or at "drop" schools like UNB and UManitoba. These schools include grad courses in calculation of admission GPA. Many lawyers have graduate degrees and you can leverage your graduate degree to stand out in the market as a lawyer later.

This is really helpful to know, thanks! I was considering doing a paralegal diploma in the meantime and hadn't considered doing a professional master program. I'll take a look! Do you think a paralegal diploma would help with my application at all? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Patient0L
  • Law Student
2 hours ago, KitKatPattyWat said:

As the title states, this is my second cycle applying to law schools after being rejected from every school I applied to last year. My stats are: L2: 3.29 LSAT: 163

I've applied to UNB, USask, Queens, Osgoode, uOttawa, TRU, Lakehead, UAlberta. So far I've been rejected from all of them except uOttawa, Queens, and USask as I have yet to hear back from them. I've been waitlisted at TRU which I am very grateful for. Unfortunately, I was going through an abusive relationship in my second and third year which made it difficult for me to fully be into my studies. I did well in my last year of university, but it wasn't enough to make up for my previous semesters. I didn't apply access as I didn't know how the admissions committee would view this and I wasn't sure how I would prove this through documentation. 

I've tried raising my LSAT score as well as redoing my personal statement for this cycle, but I am losing hope as the cycle is almost over. It has always been my dream to go to law school so I will try again next cycle if I am unsuccessful this one. I plan on taking the LSAT again and hopefully getting it up to the 170s to make up for my poor GPA and rewriting my personal statement again. Is there anything else I can do that would help my application? Thank you in advance! 

Have you tried working with an admissions consultant to rewrite your statement and tailor your admissions package to your target schools specifically? 

A higher LSAT is #1, however at this point you want to make sure that you are submitting the best possible application you can.

I would work on these two things before getting another masters degree. At least for the schools that I applied to, my Masters degrees did fuck all to boost my GPA (with the exception of 1 school which completely Frankensteined my various transcripts with little rhyme or reason). YMMV as it looks like you are considering other schools. However, I would be cautious about investing in a strategy which might only work with a few schools.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

CleanHands
  • Lawyer
5 minutes ago, Patient0L said:

Have you tried working with an admissions consultant to rewrite your statement and tailor your admissions package to your target schools specifically? 

Scam alert.

NOBODY should spend money on this!

Edited by CleanHands
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Patient0L
  • Law Student
20 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

Scam alert.

NOBODY should spend money on this!

Highly disagree. I worked with one on some US apps and totally punched above my weight.

Regardless. Whether or not it's an admission consultant, you need to have your statement read/critiqued/workshopped by someone who knows what they are doing. Just getting a few people to read it isn't the same thing as seriously writing/editing and looking at an application as a full package where you tie in multiple aspects of your story/qualifications.

Not a dissimilar service from getting help from the writing centre (or equivalent) at a university, however, you are a client so you'll get more than 30 minute appointment.

And cheaper than a Master's degree.

Edited by Patient0L
Link to comment
Share on other sites

KitKatPattyWat
  • Applicant
1 hour ago, Patient0L said:

Have you tried working with an admissions consultant to rewrite your statement and tailor your admissions package to your target schools specifically? 

A higher LSAT is #1, however at this point you want to make sure that you are submitting the best possible application you can.

I would work on these two things before getting another masters degree. At least for the schools that I applied to, my Masters degrees did fuck all to boost my GPA (with the exception of 1 school which completely Frankensteined my various transcripts with little rhyme or reason). YMMV as it looks like you are considering other schools. However, I would be cautious about investing in a strategy which might only work with a few schools.

Thank you for your suggestion! I'll keep these points in mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TheAEGIS
  • Lawyer
1 hour ago, KitKatPattyWat said:

This is really helpful to know, thanks! I was considering doing a paralegal diploma in the meantime and hadn't considered doing a professional master program. I'll take a look! Do you think a paralegal diploma would help with my application at all? 

You'll want to check with schools to see if they'll consider diploma grades as part of your cGPA calculation.
From what I recall, the answer is no. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Damages
  • Lawyer
4 hours ago, Patient0L said:

Have you tried working with an admissions consultant to rewrite your statement and tailor your admissions package to your target schools specifically? 

A higher LSAT is #1, however at this point you want to make sure that you are submitting the best possible application you can.

I would work on these two things before getting another masters degree. At least for the schools that I applied to, my Masters degrees did fuck all to boost my GPA (with the exception of 1 school which completely Frankensteined my various transcripts with little rhyme or reason). YMMV as it looks like you are considering other schools. However, I would be cautious about investing in a strategy which might only work with a few schools.

 

That's probably because you did not apply to either U of A, UNB, UManitoba, or Dal. I honestly do not think rewriting a personal statement would help if you are a regular applicant. Raising the admission stat is the surest way. If raising your LSAT score is tough, then the next option is raising your admission GPA. Many students complete a master's program and attend one of those schools I listed, instead of going for a higher LSAT score.

Edit: to answer OP's question, the courses have to be undergrad or higher level courses, so diploma or college level courses will not work.

Edited by Damages
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

pastmidnight
  • Law Student

If you are comfortable doing so, I would encourage you to reach out to the schools you applied to and ask (1) if they would be willing to review your application with you and provide feedback and (2) if you would be able to reapply under the access category. When you say you don't have documentation, I'm guessing you mean from a doctor or a therapist, but there might be other people in your life who could provide corroborating documentation that schools would accept. Did you speak to anyone about your experience when it was occurring, like a professor or TA, a paramedical provider, or maybe an academic advisor at your school? If so, they might be able to provide documentation. 

I would recommend sharing your personal statement with a few friends or family members who are strong writers once you've gotten feedback from a few admissions committees. I don't think paying for an admissions consultant is worth it.

When you reapply, regardless of whether it's in the access category, I think you should cast a wider next. Apply to TMU, shoot your shot at UVic and UBC (your GPA might convert more favourably with their drops), UMan, Western, Dal, and Windsor -- focus on securing a non-academic reference over the summer so you can apply there. 

I'm rooting for you! 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

KitKatPattyWat
  • Applicant
1 hour ago, pastmidnight said:

If you are comfortable doing so, I would encourage you to reach out to the schools you applied to and ask (1) if they would be willing to review your application with you and provide feedback and (2) if you would be able to reapply under the access category. When you say you don't have documentation, I'm guessing you mean from a doctor or a therapist, but there might be other people in your life who could provide corroborating documentation that schools would accept. Did you speak to anyone about your experience when it was occurring, like a professor or TA, a paramedical provider, or maybe an academic advisor at your school? If so, they might be able to provide documentation. 

I would recommend sharing your personal statement with a few friends or family members who are strong writers once you've gotten feedback from a few admissions committees. I don't think paying for an admissions consultant is worth it.

When you reapply, regardless of whether it's in the access category, I think you should cast a wider next. Apply to TMU, shoot your shot at UVic and UBC (your GPA might convert more favourably with their drops), UMan, Western, Dal, and Windsor -- focus on securing a non-academic reference over the summer so you can apply there. 

I'm rooting for you! 

Those are some great points. I'll reach out to a few schools and hopefully get some feedback on areas I can improve in. I'll look into getting some documentation as well. Next cycle I will definitely cast my net even further. I really appreciate your feedback and kind words. It really means lot and I wish you all the best as well on your endeavors! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TobyFlenderson
  • Lawyer
7 hours ago, Patient0L said:

Highly disagree. I worked with one on some US apps and totally punched above my weight.

Regardless. Whether or not it's an admission consultant, you need to have your statement read/critiqued/workshopped by someone who knows what they are doing. Just getting a few people to read it isn't the same thing as seriously writing/editing and looking at an application as a full package where you tie in multiple aspects of your story/qualifications.

Not a dissimilar service from getting help from the writing centre (or equivalent) at a university, however, you are a client so you'll get more than 30 minute appointment.

And cheaper than a Master's degree.

Agreed with CleanHands. In the US, this may be common and may even be legit, but in Canada, I would be very cautious about using this sort of service and expecting a material improvement in your application.

OP, I would encourage you to apply access next cycle and, as others have said, cast a wider net. Include Western in your applications, I know they’ve accepted applicants with similar stats previously.

As far as I know, the rule at most/all(?) schools is that if you apply access and they find that you don’t meet the criteria for whatever reason, you’re simply added to the non-access/general applicant pile, rather than discarded outright. You may want to confirm with specific schools that this is their policy, but I believe that’s standard across the board. That way, since you’re applying access in good faith, you may worry less about “what they’ll think of it”. Access applicants often require supporting documentation, though, so before applying access it may be useful to identify what sort of documents they might need and your comfort level with providing documents of that nature.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

KitKatPattyWat
  • Applicant
58 minutes ago, TobyFlenderson said:

Agreed with CleanHands. In the US, this may be common and may even be legit, but in Canada, I would be very cautious about using this sort of service and expecting a material improvement in your application.

OP, I would encourage you to apply access next cycle and, as others have said, cast a wider net. Include Western in your applications, I know they’ve accepted applicants with similar stats previously.

As far as I know, the rule at most/all(?) schools is that if you apply access and they find that you don’t meet the criteria for whatever reason, you’re simply added to the non-access/general applicant pile, rather than discarded outright. You may want to confirm with specific schools that this is their policy, but I believe that’s standard across the board. That way, since you’re applying access in good faith, you may worry less about “what they’ll think of it”. Access applicants often require supporting documentation, though, so before applying access it may be useful to identify what sort of documents they might need and your comfort level with providing documents of that nature.

Thank you for your insight, Toby! That's really nice to know! I'm going to play it safe and apply to every single school in Canada next cycle. I really hope I get into TRU this cycle or else applications are going to rinse my bank account 😭. I appreciate the information on how access works as well. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to apply access and try to supply the documents that I can. Appreciate it, Toby! 

Edited by KitKatPattyWat
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Patient0L
  • Law Student

I’m going to %200 double-down on my former post. 

Working with an admissions consultant was a positive and invaluable experience for me.

I have a meh GPA and got offered admission to every Canadian school to which I applied.

OP: If you want any recommendations DM me. (Or don’t… I have no interest in pushing any “scams”…)

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

pastmidnight
  • Law Student
10 hours ago, Patient0L said:

I’m going to %200 double-down on my former post. 

Working with an admissions consultant was a positive and invaluable experience for me.

I have a meh GPA and got offered admission to every Canadian school to which I applied.

OP: If you want any recommendations DM me. (Or don’t… I have no interest in pushing any “scams”…)

Disregarding my feelings about admissions consultants existing in the first place, regardless of how legitimate they can be, I think in OP’s case the issue with their application is that they should be applying in the access category rather than the general category. Their weaker performance in years 2 and 3 compared to 1 and 4 is likely what is holding them back rather than anything else in their application, and the way to compensate for that is to apply in the category that gives them the ability to address why that weaker performance occurred. I think they’d be better served seeking (free) feedback from the schools they applied to, rewriting the LSAT one more time, and then applying broadly in the access category if they are able, rather than working with an admissions consultant. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Patient0L
  • Law Student
21 hours ago, pastmidnight said:

Disregarding my feelings about admissions consultants existing in the first place, regardless of how legitimate they can be, I think in OP’s case the issue with their application is that they should be applying in the access category rather than the general category. Their weaker performance in years 2 and 3 compared to 1 and 4 is likely what is holding them back rather than anything else in their application, and the way to compensate for that is to apply in the category that gives them the ability to address why that weaker performance occurred. I think they’d be better served seeking (free) feedback from the schools they applied to, rewriting the LSAT one more time, and then applying broadly in the access category if they are able, rather than working with an admissions consultant. 

Or all of the above.

It’s interesting how, in other corners of the Internet, Spivey is treated like the God/oracle of admissions yet, here, a few loud voices whose experience applying to law schools is at least a half decade old have given an uninformed opinion quite a bit of traction.

Groupthink is a powerful force.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whist
  • Law Student
1 hour ago, Patient0L said:

Or all of the above.

It’s interesting how, in other corners of the Internet, Spivey is treated like the God/oracle of admissions yet, here, a few loud voices whose experience applying to law schools is at least a half decade old have given an uninformed opinion quite a bit of traction.

Groupthink is a powerful force.

Okay, here's a loud voice whose experience applying to law school is within the last few years. 

The reason this service is treated like the "oracle of admissions" elsewhere on the internet is because the majority of information on law admissions out there is for the US. I don't know enough about American law schools to say whether it's a service that's made itself necessary there. For Canadian law schools, it's vastly a waste of money. Full stop. Anything Canadian law schools want from you is written right on their websites, there's no secret they're hiding that only consultants know. Asking a friend, family, or preferably upper year students to give feedback on an application is free and just as useful. (I believe some schools like Oz will also give you free feedback if you're not admitted.) Your GPA, LSAT, and experience are nearly always the things that gauge your likelihood of admission, in that order. Writing a decent PS is a good thing to do but most successful applicants have average statements anyway. As someone else has mentioned, applying in the category that best fits can only benefit you.

I'll agree that people more recently involved in admissions may have more insight into the process, but by the way you're stating it, half the consultants at Spivey don't know what they're doing because it's been ages since they worked on adcoms. Moreover, some services (I can't speak for Spivey, I'm sure they're a professional bunch given their alleged rep) claiming to do consulting may open you up to actual risk because they edit what is supposed to be the product of the applicant's work alone.

Patient0L, you state that you had a mediocre GPA as proof of a consultant helping, but you also had a 167 LSAT, two Masters degrees, awards in your field, and you applied in Access/Discretionary categories. You didn't get in because of the consultant, you got in because you're competitive. 

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

pastmidnight
  • Law Student
3 hours ago, Patient0L said:

Or all of the above.

It’s interesting how, in other corners of the Internet, Spivey is treated like the God/oracle of admissions yet, here, a few loud voices whose experience applying to law schools is at least a half decade old have given an uninformed opinion quite a bit of traction.

Groupthink is a powerful force.

I applied this cycle, and I do not see working with an admissions consultant as necessary for the vast majority of students applying to Canadian schools, OP included, and my feelings on this were solidified before I ever stumbled on this forum. 

This being said I had a preexisting dislike for admissions consultants, as I grew up in the US and am firmly of the opinion that they allow students who already have access to resources the majority of the population doesn't -- private schooling with in-house college counsellors who have relationships with prestigious universities, ample financial resources, prep-test tutoring, fancy (expensive) extracurriculars that look good on applications, the ability to do unpaid internships, volunteering, etc -- an additional leg up, and that all they serve to do is reinforce the US's class structure. 

Do they serve a slightly different purpose in Canada? Sure, I suppose. Do I think admissions consultants are necessary for the vast majority of applicants? No. Would I advise OP to work with one? No. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Patient0L
  • Law Student
1 hour ago, Whist said:

Okay, here's a loud voice whose experience applying to law school is within the last few years. 

The reason this service is treated like the "oracle of admissions" elsewhere on the internet is because the majority of information on law admissions out there is for the US. I don't know enough about American law schools to say whether it's a service that's made itself necessary there. For Canadian law schools, it's vastly a waste of money. Full stop. Anything Canadian law schools want from you is written right on their websites, there's no secret they're hiding that only consultants know. Asking a friend, family, or preferably upper year students to give feedback on an application is free and just as useful. (I believe some schools like Oz will also give you free feedback if you're not admitted.) Your GPA, LSAT, and experience are nearly always the things that gauge your likelihood of admission, in that order. Writing a decent PS is a good thing to do but most successful applicants have average statements anyway. As someone else has mentioned, applying in the category that best fits can only benefit you.

I'll agree that people more recently involved in admissions may have more insight into the process, but by the way you're stating it, half the consultants at Spivey don't know what they're doing because it's been ages since they worked on adcoms. Moreover, some services (I can't speak for Spivey, I'm sure they're a professional bunch given their alleged rep) claiming to do consulting may open you up to actual risk because they edit what is supposed to be the product of the applicant's work alone.

Patient0L, you state that you had a mediocre GPA as proof of a consultant helping, but you also had a 167 LSAT, two Masters degrees, awards in your field, and you applied in Access/Discretionary categories. You didn't get in because of the consultant, you got in because you're competitive. 

I agree that GPA/LSAT is #1 and that there are people out there that probably aren’t great at what they purport to be experts at. Anyone working with any kind of consultant should really do their research. I would stay away from anything associated with a test prep company or something that looks like a startup staffed by students/recent grads.

I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss this as a US phenomenon. I recently found out a friend/acquaintance works as a writing coach for a educational consulting firm out of Vancouver. It came up in a conversation about UBC admissions, as it turns out they had worked with worked with a number of prospective Allard students on their essay questions.

It’s definitely not an approach for everyone nor is it accessible financially. In this competitive atmosphere, I wouldn’t wholly discount it as an option. In terms of risk of someone’s statement not being authentic bc of an amount of help that crosses the line… some people are shady… I think that could occur in a variety of scenarios.

Haha maybe I was competitive for some schools but not all (esp not in the US). I maybe could have been ok without the couple hours of review/feedback I got, but as someone without access to student academic supports or family members in the legal field, I really wouldn’t have felt comfortable submitting an application without an expert opinion.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

ZukoJD
  • Law Student

Of course it's a good idea to apply even more broadly than you have next cycle if needed, however I want to note that you should still make a concerted effort to tailor your personal statements. I had decent but by no means fantastic stats and was admitted to several schools (3 of which you've listed here) and I believe the fact that I tailored my personal statements for each school had something to do with this. It was tedious considering I also applied broadly, but we don't want to be leaving anything on the table here. 

As others have mentioned I think the access category could be appropriate for yourself as well. 

If you need someone to review a document feel free to PM me. 

Good luck! 

 

Edited by ZukoJD
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Patient0L
  • Law Student
31 minutes ago, pastmidnight said:

This being said I had a preexisting dislike for admissions consultants, as I grew up in the US and am firmly of the opinion that they allow students who already have access to resources the majority of the population doesn't -- private schooling with in-house college counsellors who have relationships with prestigious universities, ample financial resources, prep-test tutoring, fancy (expensive) extracurriculars that look good on applications, the ability to do unpaid internships, volunteering, etc -- an additional leg up, and that all they serve to do is reinforce the US's class structure. 

Yup. It’s definitely a resource for the privileged and that’s totally unfair. 🤷🏻‍♀️ 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

halamadrid
  • Law Student

Don't give up if you really want to become a lawyer. My advice would be to keep adding to your resume in terms of work and volunteer experience. I would consider rewriting/modifying your PS and even tailoring it where you can. It took me 5 tries to get into law school, so trust me when I say that I know what it feels to get rejected 😅

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

ZukoJD
  • Law Student
45 minutes ago, halamadrid said:

Don't give up if you really want to become a lawyer. My advice would be to keep adding to your resume in terms of work and volunteer experience. I would consider rewriting/modifying your PS and even tailoring it where you can. It took me 5 tries to get into law school, so trust me when I say that I know what it feels to get rejected 😅

I respect the hustle. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By accessing this website, you agree to abide by our Terms of Use. YOU EXPRESSLY ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU WILL NOT CONSTRUE ANY POST ON THIS WEBSITE AS PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE EVEN IF SUCH POST IS MADE BY A PERSON CLAIMING TO BE A LAWYER. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.