Salary outlook at small-mid sized firms for a first year call?

[ED31]

I have been struggling to find reliable information regarding what the average salary is for a new call in a small-mid sized criminal firm. Some sources say 60-75k while others say 100-125k (This is for Ontario btw). Is there a site that gives reliable salary data for new calls?

[123]

It’s not 100k+ for most new calls in criminal defence. That would strike me as unusual. 60-75k is more common, but it varies based upon (a) the firm’s location, clientele, etc, and (b) your background and experience. Henein Hutchinson (or whoever) pays more to gold-medalists and appellate clerks than lawyers who mostly work on LAO certificates in Cornwall, ON. 

You get different arrangements, too. Some are straight salary. Others are more eat-what-you-kill. Then there’s everything in between. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by realpseudonym

[ED31]

33 minutes ago, realpseudonym said:

It’s not 100k+ for most new calls in criminal defence. That would strike me as unusual. 60-75k is more common, but it varies based upon (a) the firm’s location, clientele, etc, and (b) your background and experience. Henein Hutchinson (or whoever) pays more to gold-medalists and appellate clerks than lawyers who mostly work on LAO certificates in Cornwall, ON. 

You get different arrangements, too. Some are straight salary. Others are more eat-what-you-kill. Then there’s everything in between. 

Appreciate the insight! I was looking at firms in downtown Toronto mostly 

[Judgelight]

I was offered a 70k salary, downtown Toronto, 3 - 4 years ago when I was called. Tarrifs haven’t gone-up, so salaries probably have not gone-up either.

The sooner you can go out on your own, the better. Almost all of my friends have pretty amazing work/life balances and no lack of clientele. 

[ED31]

2 hours ago, Judgelight said:

I was offered a 70k salary, downtown Toronto, 3 - 4 years ago when I was called. Tarrifs haven’t gone-up, so salaries probably have not gone-up either.

The sooner you can go out on your own, the better. Almost all of my friends have pretty amazing work/life balances and no lack of clientele. 

Amen brother that's the plan, just wanted to work for a year after articling to get some extra experience and save up a bit to open my own firm 

[Mitch]

Hoping to bump up this topic, as I am discussing employment as a first-year associate with practices in smaller Ontario communities and have a few questions.
 

1. Is compensation for first year's still generally in the 60-100k range?
2. Is compensation generally a flat salary or based on billable hours?

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Mitch
Grammar

[SNAILS]

Keep in mind that I am basing this mainly on what one firm pays with the assumption that other firms pay similarly in the local area. I've spent a fair amount of time adjusting and completing other people's billing/docketing!

- $60-80k (earners on the higher end are able to manage a client - generally minor offences - from start to finish with minimal supervision).

- flat salary (where billable hours does not affect your pay but you will get emails asking you to bill more if you have low billable).

Edited August 14, 2023 by SNAILS

[Law nerd 221]

I just started working as a first year associate in a boutique family law firm (in the GTA) and I get more than 100k a year + benefits + bonus 

[CleanHands]

1 hour ago, Law nerd 221 said:

I just started working as a first year associate in a boutique family law firm (in the GTA) and I get more than 100k a year + benefits + bonus 

This is an irrelevant response to this thread, which is about criminal law positions.

Family law pays better, and the work is easier to get, compared to criminal law. For this reason, there are many "criminal lawyers" out there who start taking family law files to supplement their income, and a good chunk of them end up becoming family lawyers before they realize it.

[toby1994]

How common are junior associate positions in criminal defence that pay in the 60-75k range? I’d like to go out on my own eventually, but I think I’d prefer the security of working for someone else for the first few years after being called. 

[123]

2 hours ago, toby1994 said:

How common are junior associate positions in criminal defence that pay in the 60-75k range? I’d like to go out on my own eventually, but I think I’d prefer the security of working for someone else for the first few years after being called. 

60-75k per year is common, insofar as that's not an unreasonable pay expectation for a junior criminal defence lawyer in a larger city. But it's also uncommon in the sense that, no, there aren't a tonne of salaried positions compared to other areas of practice. A lot of defence work is done outside of  the confines of a traditional, salaried job. That doesn't always mean you're entirely on your own. But there are lots of files available on anything from a fee-split basis, to an eat-what-you-kill relationship with another lawyer, to contract/agency work with different lawyers, to sole practice.

Edit: I realized after posting that I basically said this above, but have no memory of posting. I'm going to be such an old man soon.

Edited September 15, 2023 by realpseudonym