Advice for Applying to the Ottawa 2L Summer Recruit

[capitalttruth]

Hi there,

I am applying to the Ottawa 2L Recruit, and am in need of some advice. I want to maximize my chances at success for next summer.

I have an A- average with what I would consider fairly extensive work experience (currently work for MAG, last summer worked for UN organization) and good softs (law review, chapter leader of student organization, research publication). 

The first question I have is where to apply. I have little interest in working for big law; my interests are Constitutional/Public law, Aboriginal/Indigenous law, environmental law, land use planning law, and civil litigation. With that in mind, knowing that big law normally dominates the recruit, is it still worth applying? There are some mid sized firms in Ottawa (Nelligan, for instance) that have strong Indigenous and Environmental Law Groups that I wouldn't mind joining for a summer if it meant a job over no job. Should I apply broadly and see what happens? Are there firms that don't participate in the recruit that I will have to cold call relatively early in my 2L year?

The second question may be better reserved for my CDO, but I'll ask it here preliminarily. What are some general tips on how to do well in interviews? I've only really done government interviews (albeit for provincial government). 

[ZukoJD]

Can’t speak too much to the first part of your post, but interviews in my opinion are just about preparation. If you anticipate questions and prepare answers with good anecdotes you will likely do fine. 

[sunnysunshine]

Glad to see a thread was created for these types of questions. Does anyone know when Ottawa 2L recruits begin? I noticed a couple options in Ottawa or near it, however the vast majority are all Toronto firms. Anyone know when exactly most of the Ottawa firms appear on ViRecruitLaw? In other words, do Ottawa firms usually wait until OCI season to get job opportunities posted? Maybe a 3L can speak to this from experience. 🙂

[CommeCiCommeCa]

Hey! to answer @sunnysunshine's question, Ottawa does do its own 2L recruit, it just hasn't happened yet. According to the McGill CDO's 2L Guide, it is likely to open some time in late-November/early-December with applications due some time in mid-January. So you'll have some time to prepare. A large portion of firms (and usually the DoJ) will hire during this recruit, but there will be some smaller firms that hire outside of the recruit. Some federal departments (other than the DoJ) also hire law students through FSWEP or other job postings, and some schools also have specialized recruitment processes for these types of positions. 

I can take a crack at answering your questions @capitalttruth. Firstly, I am of the opinion that one should only apply for positions that they would actually want (so if that is not your mindset going into the recruit, then take my advice with a grain of salt). I also had no interest in applying to any big law firms or working in big law, so when I applied to the Ottawa 2L recruit, I only applied to one firm because it was the only firm I could see myself wanting to work at. Based on your interests, I would suggest you check them out (Juristes Power--how's your French?) I definitely think it is still worthwhile to apply to the recruit, even if there is only one firm that you could see yourself working at. Ottawa also has some other smaller constitutional/admin law boutique firms that might be worth checking out, like Conway Baxter Wilson, and Caza Saikaley. A tip that might help you figure out firms to apply to might be to look up the types of cases that you find interesting, and see which firms are representing the parties in those cases (if litigation is what you're interested in). With your stats I wouldn't think you would need to apply to a ton of firms to land something, but the boutique firms can also be competitive, so YMMV. 

On the other hand, if you just want a job and would be open to trying out big law (or any other options for that matter), then I don't think there is any harm in applying broadly and just seeing what kinds of interview offers you get. You don't have to take every interview you're offered if you do end up getting a bunch, so the only thing you'd be losing out on is the time it takes to put together your applications. You can decide when the recruitment portal opens up how much time you want to spend working on applications as well. 

As for the list of firms participating in the recruit, once the recruitment portal opens you will be able to see the list of firms that are participating. If a firm that you're interested in is not participating, then it might be worthwhile to send them a cold call. 

Interviews can differ drastically from one firm to another, so I don't know if there is a set way to approach them. The basics are researching the employer, having a coherent answer to questions along the lines of "why this firm?", and "why X/Y/Z field of law?" type questions, and just being genuine. Like you said, I would imagine your CDO has some helpful resources to this effect. 

If you have any other questions, I'm happy to try my best to answer them, and feel free to DM me. Best of luck with your applications!

[frenchie]

2 hours ago, sunnysunshine said:

Glad to see a thread was created for these types of questions. Does anyone know when Ottawa 2L recruits begin? I noticed a couple options in Ottawa or near it, however the vast majority are all Toronto firms. Anyone know when exactly most of the Ottawa firms appear on ViRecruitLaw? In other words, do Ottawa firms usually wait until OCI season to get job opportunities posted? Maybe a 3L can speak to this from experience. 🙂

The Ottawa 2L recruit date is on ViRecruitLaw: December 10th. 

[capitalttruth]

15 hours ago, CommeCiCommeCa said:

Hey! to answer @sunnysunshine's question, Ottawa does do its own 2L recruit, it just hasn't happened yet. According to the McGill CDO's 2L Guide, it is likely to open some time in late-November/early-December with applications due some time in mid-January. So you'll have some time to prepare. A large portion of firms (and usually the DoJ) will hire during this recruit, but there will be some smaller firms that hire outside of the recruit. Some federal departments (other than the DoJ) also hire law students through FSWEP or other job postings, and some schools also have specialized recruitment processes for these types of positions. 

I can take a crack at answering your questions @capitalttruth. Firstly, I am of the opinion that one should only apply for positions that they would actually want (so if that is not your mindset going into the recruit, then take my advice with a grain of salt). I also had no interest in applying to any big law firms or working in big law, so when I applied to the Ottawa 2L recruit, I only applied to one firm because it was the only firm I could see myself wanting to work at. Based on your interests, I would suggest you check them out (Juristes Power--how's your French?) I definitely think it is still worthwhile to apply to the recruit, even if there is only one firm that you could see yourself working at. Ottawa also has some other smaller constitutional/admin law boutique firms that might be worth checking out, like Conway Baxter Wilson, and Caza Saikaley. A tip that might help you figure out firms to apply to might be to look up the types of cases that you find interesting, and see which firms are representing the parties in those cases (if litigation is what you're interested in). With your stats I wouldn't think you would need to apply to a ton of firms to land something, but the boutique firms can also be competitive, so YMMV. 

On the other hand, if you just want a job and would be open to trying out big law (or any other options for that matter), then I don't think there is any harm in applying broadly and just seeing what kinds of interview offers you get. You don't have to take every interview you're offered if you do end up getting a bunch, so the only thing you'd be losing out on is the time it takes to put together your applications. You can decide when the recruitment portal opens up how much time you want to spend working on applications as well. 

As for the list of firms participating in the recruit, once the recruitment portal opens you will be able to see the list of firms that are participating. If a firm that you're interested in is not participating, then it might be worthwhile to send them a cold call. 

Interviews can differ drastically from one firm to another, so I don't know if there is a set way to approach them. The basics are researching the employer, having a coherent answer to questions along the lines of "why this firm?", and "why X/Y/Z field of law?" type questions, and just being genuine. Like you said, I would imagine your CDO has some helpful resources to this effect. 

If you have any other questions, I'm happy to try my best to answer them, and feel free to DM me. Best of luck with your applications!

Thanks @CommeCiCommeCa!! Extremely helpful! Honestly, Juristes Power would be a dream, but my French is not up to snuff. Argh! I have to bulk up my French anyway, though, because I want to increase my chances of landing an FC or FCA clerkship. I think you have to be fluent to work at Power, though? 

The other question I had is how would you suggest going about applying to firms that may be hiring summer students but aren't participating in the formal recruit? Is it a matter of cold calling/e-mailing them with your CV? How do you suggest writing these e-mails, and when in the year should I start? I've already started reaching out to some firms, but it may be too early.

[CommeCiCommeCa]

The work is predominantly in French and the office is francophone, so you'd have to be comfortable enough in French to spend your day working in it/speaking it. 

As for the cold calling, I think it might be a little early to be sending out CVs (but I won't pretend to be an expert on this subject matter). What I would personally recommend is finding lawyers who work at those firms on LinkedIn (or by email), whose careers you might be interested in and asking them for a coffee chat to talk about the path they took to get to where they are, and their thoughts on the firm. Networking this way might help you get your foot in the door for when you do eventually apply, as some folks at the office will then at least know your name. You could even ask them what their recruitment process looks like during the coffee chat, at which point they may ask you to send your CV, or at least tell you when they begin their search for summer students. 

[reaperlaw]

You saw you don't have interest in big law, but realistically speaking there are only two firms in Ottawa that are big law sized (Gowling and BLG) and both of them do several of the things you are interested in. The other big law law firms in Ottawa are either mid size (e.g. Norton Rose) or smaller, only do a handful of practice areas (e.g. McMillan), or are mostly dedicated outposts for particular practice areas (Stikes for regulatory, Osler for IP). It's not big law like Toronto big law. It's probably more advantageous to apply for a job at one of the "big law" firms over the regional firms like Nelligan, Brazeau, Perley and Soloway whom often have larger Ottawa offices than the big law firms you say you aren't interest in.

I would also say its easy to exclude big law now but wait until you find out that much (though not all) of the regional and boutique firms do not offer competitive salaries. One of the boutique firms mentioned in this thread is notorious for terrible student and associate salaries. At least the big law firms are almost (if not all) over $80,000 for first-year associates. 

[capitalttruth]

How important is French for the Ottawa recruit? I'm born in Ottawa but I didn't grow up in a French speaking household and I pushed it to the backburner. Now I'm worried that my lack of French will hurt me in my OCI and clerkship applications for the Ottawa recruit.

[reaperlaw]

On 8/18/2022 at 3:25 AM, capitalttruth said:

How important is French for the Ottawa recruit? I'm born in Ottawa but I didn't grow up in a French speaking household and I pushed it to the backburner. Now I'm worried that my lack of French will hurt me in my OCI and clerkship applications for the Ottawa recruit.

Don't have anything to say about clerkships but my impression is for most firms besides certain smaller shops like Caza Saikaley and Power Law is it certainly is not a deal breaker. You see PCLF students do a bit better proportionally, which may suggest that French is an important enough asset that it will help you get a job, but to be sure plenty of unilingual English law students get hired into most Ottawa firms every year.

I even know of one Ottawa big law firm that during a firm event they hosted for prospective applicants, outright said to a PCLF student in Q&A that French is not an asset for them as they do not practice in French.

[torontoad]

On 7/6/2022 at 6:39 PM, reaperlaw said:

You saw you don't have interest in big law, but realistically speaking there are only two firms in Ottawa that are big law sized (Gowling and BLG) and both of them do several of the things you are interested in. The other big law law firms in Ottawa are either mid size (e.g. Norton Rose) or smaller, only do a handful of practice areas (e.g. McMillan), or are mostly dedicated outposts for particular practice areas (Stikes for regulatory, Osler for IP). It's not big law like Toronto big law. It's probably more advantageous to apply for a job at one of the "big law" firms over the regional firms like Nelligan, Brazeau, Perley and Soloway whom often have larger Ottawa offices than the big law firms you say you aren't interest in.

I would also say its easy to exclude big law now but wait until you find out that much (though not all) of the regional and boutique firms do not offer competitive salaries. One of the boutique firms mentioned in this thread is notorious for terrible student and associate salaries. At least the big law firms are almost (if not all) over $80,000 for first-year associates. 

Do you happen to know which regional and boutique firms here offer competitive salaries? I've browsed NALP, but often only find salaries for the big firms. 

[reaperlaw]

On 11/10/2022 at 5:57 PM, torontoad said:

Do you happen to know which regional and boutique firms here offer competitive salaries? I've browsed NALP, but often only find salaries for the big firms. 

It would depend on how you define competitive in relation to. Competitive for Ottawa? I think most of the regional firms are pretty close to Ottawa big law salary, but I don't know if that has changed recently as big law salaries have increased a bit. The highly regarded boutiques (I don't include Caza here) would also be competitive with Ottawa big law.