Windsor Law vs. US T2

[NikM]

17 hours ago, NikM said:

Your stats don’t make sense. You’re comparing hires to overall class size of 2L. You would need to compare the applicant pool to get an accurate placement rate. You lack basic stat skills. And I can very much disagree with that claim. This is the common student bubble argument that is out of touch with reality.  

Typical laugh and no response. Wait til the bubble pops. You’ll realize there are no Harvard law schools in Canada upon entering the real world. 

[QueensDenning]

9 minutes ago, NikM said:

Typical laugh and no response. Wait til the bubble pops. You’ll realize there are no Harvard law schools in Canada upon entering the real world. 

Your comments are so ridiculous they don't merit a response. Your writing is also unclear to the point where I genuinely am unsure of the points your trying to get across. But since you're calling me out for laughing: 

Do you realize you're talking to people who are in the "real world" (or very close, depending on how you define it). I also don't think it's a stretch to say that students like myself, who have just gone through summering and two formal recruits, are possibly the most in tune with the current legal market in Toronto (at least insofar as what firms are looking for in applicants).

What stage is your legal career in at this point @NikM? 

I guess your (commonly repeated and slammed) argument is that we can't use % success in OCI's from a school like Windsor as a causal connection to say that if you go to Windsor you have less of a chance of getting X job through Toronto OCI's. Why does this make sense? According to you - and correct me if I'm miss-understanding you - it's because most of the Windsor grads don't want to go to Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa, Calgary, or any of the other major legal markets with formal recruits where we can compare statistics about what students/associates come from which schools. Most of the Windsor students want to work in small legal markets, social justice, or whatever other jobs are available outside formal recruitment processes, and those who want to more competitive jobs in markets like Toronto are just as likely to get them going to Lakehead or Windsor as UofT or Oss. 

If that's what you want to keep believing, I won't dissuade you any further.

Ps - I hope you enjoy your experience at Detroit Mercy!  

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by QueensDenning

[NikM]

1 hour ago, QueensDenning said:

Your comments are so ridiculous they don't merit a response. Your writing is also unclear to the point where I genuinely am unsure of the points your trying to get across. But since you're calling me out for laughing: 

Do you realize you're talking to people who are in the "real world" (or very close, depending on how you define it). I also don't think it's a stretch to say that students like myself, who have just gone through summering and two formal recruits, are possibly the most in tune with the current legal market in Toronto (at least insofar as what firms are looking for in applicants).

What stage is your legal career in at this point @NikM? 

I guess your (commonly repeated and slammed) argument is that we can't use % success in OCI's from a school like Windsor as a causal connection to say that if you go to Windsor you have less of a chance of getting X job through Toronto OCI's. Why does this make sense? According to you - and correct me if I'm miss-understanding you - it's because most of the Windsor grads don't want to go to Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa, Calgary, or any of the other major legal markets with formal recruits where we can compare statistics about what students/associates come from which schools. Most of the Windsor students want to work in small legal markets, social justice, or whatever other jobs are available outside formal recruitment processes, and those who want to more competitive jobs in markets like Toronto are just as likely to get them going to Lakehead or Windsor as UofT or Oss. 

If that's what you want to keep believing, I won't dissuade you any further.

Ps - I hope you enjoy your experience at Detroit Mercy!  

 

No, my argument wasn’t really an argument. I’m pointing out pretty common-sense methods of statistical analysis. You can’t compare the overall class size to number of hires and claim an accurate success rate. You have to compare number of applicants to actual hires. This isn’t a Windsor argument. Its a “you lack statistical competency” statement of fact. I just thought your points on OCIs and placement rates were so flawed and ridiculous that I had to point it out. 

And my prior comment was quite clear. All your assumptions about desire to work in Toronto markets, etc are irrelevant. If you’re comparing applicants to hires, it controls for all those variables. These are very simple concepts and points that I’m raising. Your condescension is an embarrassment to all Ontario schools. I’ve never visited Detroit Mercy but I’m positive there are fine lawyers that are down to earth that graduate from there. 

[QueensDenning]

34 minutes ago, NikM said:

No, my argument wasn’t really an argument. I’m pointing out pretty common-sense methods of statistical analysis. You can’t compare the overall class size to number of hires and claim an accurate success rate. You have to compare number of applicants to actual hires. This isn’t a Windsor argument. Its a “you lack statistical competency” statement of fact. I just thought your points on OCIs and placement rates were so flawed and ridiculous that I had to point it out. 

And my prior comment was quite clear. All your assumptions about desire to work in Toronto markets, etc are irrelevant. If you’re comparing applicants to hires, it controls for all those variables. These are very simple concepts and points that I’m raising. Your condescension is an embarrassment to all Ontario schools. I’ve never visited Detroit Mercy but I’m positive there are fine lawyers that are down to earth that graduate from there. 

You're right I'm just an idiot who doesn't understand stats. 

BTW I didn't mean to put any shade on Windsor or Detroit Mercy and there are absolutely top rate lawyers and students at those schools and all Canadian schools.

I'm just trying to give the best advice I can to students who are contemplating which school(s) they want to go to - because your career outcomes are absolutely influenced, in one way or the other, based on which school you go to. While all law schools in Canada provide a great legal education, depending on the job you want to get, it will be easier at some schools compared to others. 

[QMT20]

1 hour ago, NikM said:

No, my argument wasn’t really an argument. I’m pointing out pretty common-sense methods of statistical analysis. You can’t compare the overall class size to number of hires and claim an accurate success rate. You have to compare number of applicants to actual hires. This isn’t a Windsor argument. Its a “you lack statistical competency” statement of fact. I just thought your points on OCIs and placement rates were so flawed and ridiculous that I had to point it out. 

And my prior comment was quite clear. All your assumptions about desire to work in Toronto markets, etc are irrelevant. If you’re comparing applicants to hires, it controls for all those variables. These are very simple concepts and points that I’m raising. Your condescension is an embarrassment to all Ontario schools. I’ve never visited Detroit Mercy but I’m positive there are fine lawyers that are down to earth that graduate from there. 

I do not believe there is a significantly smaller proportion of Windsor students applying to Toronto OCIs compared to other Ontario law schools. I will gladly accept I'm wrong if someone actually compiles stats about the number of applicants proving otherwise. However, in the absence of actual statistics, I don't think you can just assume that a lower proportion from Windsor apply and therefore there's no difference to your odds between going there or a school that places a higher proportion of their overall class. 

I'm sure the quality of legal education at Windsor is high and I know lots of great lawyers and professors from Windsor. But if you want to land a big law position in OCIs, I definitely think there are better options to achieve that goal.