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Imposter Syndrome Got Worse After Starting As Associate


LegalPositivism

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LegalPositivism
  • Lawyer

Recently started as an associate at a mid-sized full service firm, also summered and articled there. Objectively I know that (a) most ppl in my firm are super, super nice, understanding and helpful, and (b) I'm in a better position than when I was an articling student. However, I am somehow experiencing the worst self-doubt ever, and am very sensitive about delivering something not good (probably most of the time), failing partners' and senior lawyers' expectations, and being seen as stupid and incompetent. I was called to a partner's office earlier, and instantly I was thinking "did I do a shit job on the stuff I gave them yesterday" -- turns out it was basically fine, they just wanted to go through it with me and discuss next steps. But that shows how I react to things right now and can't help assuming I did something wrong. The other day I was asking a quick question to another junior lawyer who's a couple years ahead, and almost cried during the conversation -- because I felt pretty silly not knowing that and also insecure about if that's something I should know; that lawyer was great in helping and gave me useful advice, basically saying it's normal, don't worry to much, just do what you can, no reasonable ppl expect you to know everything and do perfect job, set your boundaries, etc. 

So the reasonable part in me is accepting all that and asking myself to chill down, but not enough to curb the other thoughts or reactions that I know objectively are unnecessary. I did do a self reflection and identified the reasons for me feeling this way at the moment:

  • It looks like a huge transition from an articling student to a lawyer, but apparently I don't know anything better now than the few-months-ago me who was still an articling student. Also this job didn't come easily, at this firm you both have to do a good job as a student and be lucky enough that there is a vacancy. I guess part of me just can't help feeling that I have to do something exceptional to show I "deserve" it
  • I know most ppl at the firm are really understanding and supportive, but I have this self defense mechanism (such as assuming the worst of ppl, reading between the lines even if they're saying something seemingly positive or neutral) because I previously had some experience with really toxic ppl/environment, it's not easy to let that go, and I'm not so sure if I actually want to let that go
  • I'm not confident about my ability to excel at this particular area of law I'll be focusing on from now on. As students we rotated through each practice group, and I did not find my performance to be particularly strong in any of my rotations, I was pretty even, and got positive feedbacks from each. I also didn't feel a particular interest towards any specific area -- of course I like what I'm doing now, but my decision to go onto the solicitor side was essentially based on an objective balancing of all factors including my personality and my hatred towards civil procedure

Recognizing these is one thing, but effectively dealing with them is another. I'm wondering if anyone in similar position as me are feeling the same and how are you coping, and I'd appreciate if anyone from senior lawyer/partner's perspective can share what you think, and realistically what are your expectations on who's just started and how can one fulfill such expectations. Many thanks!

 

Additional rant for the day: just attended a client meeting with a partner, who introduced me as an associate, and the client called me an "assistant"... 

Edited by LegalPositivism
typo
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ZukoJD
  • Law Student

This is not meant to be a slight whatsoever. I think the types of issues you're having seem like things best addressed with regular visits to a qualified therapist. 

Edited by ZukoJD
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LegalPositivism
  • Lawyer
35 minutes ago, ZukoJD said:

This is not meant to be a slight whatsoever. I think the types of issues you're having seem like things best addressed with regular visits to a qualified therapist. 

Appreciate that.

 

Without disclosing too much personal info on this aspect, and certainly not seeking anyone here do a therapist job, I'm wondering if anyone would help provide some practical insight as to what do senior lawyers/partners expect when they ask a fairly junior lawyer to do stuff, and regarding any "mess ups", to what extent will they tolerate and understand that.

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It's actually pretty common to feel this way. The responsibility of being a competent lawyer is quite substantial, and having to shoulder that after just under a year of articling can be overwhelming.

A few thoughts:

Firstly, every one at your firm is going to know you're a new call. There is absolutely nothing wrong with not knowing about something. There was a time, in every lawyer's life, when they didn't know how to do a particular thing. I know this sounds obvious, but it is worth stating and affirming to yourself. Your professional responsibility is not to know the answer to every question the minute it is asked. Your responsibility is to diligently and competently do your duty on a file. In the early stages of your career, that diligence and competence comes from asking senior lawyers how to do things. There is no shame in doing so, and in fact you are expected to do this. Once you've done a thing a few times with some help or guidance, you'll be able to transition to doing it on your own. And more to your advantage, you have your entire firm's expertise you can lean on. Absolutely take advantage of that!

Secondly, while you are now a lawyer, you have absolutely not finished being a student. The articling process and the bar exam are requirements for absolute minimum competence as a lawyer. You've met them (congrats!), but it's the experience you gain in the first 5-7 years of practice that really allow you to feel confident in your work. I'm only a third year call, and believe me, I still feel far away from feeling confident, but I'm getting there. So no one at your firm is going to put any special meaning to the fact that you're now a lawyer, when just a couple of months ago you were still a student. As far as the firm is concerned, you're still really a student - and that's OK and expected.

Lastly, your firm hired you not because of what you know but because of what they feel you will be capable of with proper training. New calls are not worth much more than a student, except maybe they can bill you out at slightly higher rates. The value your firm sees in you is your ability to do your job well (which you have demonstrated, otherwise they would not have hired you back!) and your capacity to learn. Take comfort in your firm's desire to see you grow as a lawyer (again, that's why they hired you) and allow them to teach you.

So, stay on yourself and ensure you are delivering your work at the highest level of quality and competence, which you can best do by being thorough on your files, informing yourself by using your firm's resources (library, legal databases, etc.), and seeking advice from senior lawyers whenever you don't know something.

Best of luck!

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10 minutes ago, LegalPositivism said:

I'm wondering if anyone would help provide some practical insight as to what do senior lawyers/partners expect when they ask a fairly junior lawyer to do stuff, and regarding any "mess ups", to what extent will they tolerate and understand that.

A lot will depend on the lawyer giving you the work, but it will likely range from: (1) the lawyer providing you with appropriate precedents or past work on similar files and asking you to take a crack at it based on said precedents/work; or (2) asking you to take a crack at it with very little, if any, starting point.

The #2 part of the spectrum sucks, and that will then mean you will have to do a ton of work searching for previous files or precedents in your firm's database. But sometimes, this is how some lawyers will operate with students and new calls (and sometimes it's just the nature of the question being asked that there are no precedents to consult). In these cases, my strategy has been to ask another junior if they'd encountered something like it and to point me in a particular direction (a file or precedent I could use). I was always cognizant of workload, so my queries were always general, but I found this approach to work well for me. Occasionally, this strategy yielded nothing helpful, in which case I had my research cut out for me.

In an ideal scenario, and likely in the case of a fairly common matter, the lawyer will be closer to #1 in the spectrum. In this case, you will likely have a great place to start your work.

However you start, obviously do your best work, and as competently as possible. Sometimes that means asking the senior lawyer questions as you encounter them. Sometimes that means reaching out to other colleagues at the firm to ask their advice. Sometimes that means doing a bunch of research. Provided that you have done all you can reasonably do, any mistakes you have made will be learning opportunities for you. While not all lawyers will act reasonably (unfortunately), it's expected that the work of a new call will need revisions. Sometimes several. Sometimes that means a lawyer taking time to go over things with you. Assuming you made no unreasonable mistakes in your work, there should be no reason why any required revisions should "count against you" in the eyes of the firm.

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Bob Jones
  • Lawyer
On 8/12/2022 at 1:40 PM, LegalPositivism said:

Recently started as an associate at a mid-sized full service firm, also summered and articled there. Objectively I know that (a) most ppl in my firm are super, super nice, understanding and helpful, and (b) I'm in a better position than when I was an articling student. However, I am somehow experiencing the worst self-doubt ever, and am very sensitive about delivering something not good (probably most of the time), failing partners' and senior lawyers' expectations, and being seen as stupid and incompetent. I was called to a partner's office earlier, and instantly I was thinking "did I do a shit job on the stuff I gave them yesterday" -- turns out it was basically fine, they just wanted to go through it with me and discuss next steps. But that shows how I react to things right now and can't help assuming I did something wrong. The other day I was asking a quick question to another junior lawyer who's a couple years ahead, and almost cried during the conversation -- because I felt pretty silly not knowing that and also insecure about if that's something I should know; that lawyer was great in helping and gave me useful advice, basically saying it's normal, don't worry to much, just do what you can, no reasonable ppl expect you to know everything and do perfect job, set your boundaries, etc. 

So the reasonable part in me is accepting all that and asking myself to chill down, but not enough to curb the other thoughts or reactions that I know objectively are unnecessary. I did do a self reflection and identified the reasons for me feeling this way at the moment:

  • It looks like a huge transition from an articling student to a lawyer, but apparently I don't know anything better now than the few-months-ago me who was still an articling student. Also this job didn't come easily, at this firm you both have to do a good job as a student and be lucky enough that there is a vacancy. I guess part of me just can't help feeling that I have to do something exceptional to show I "deserve" it
  • I know most ppl at the firm are really understanding and supportive, but I have this self defense mechanism (such as assuming the worst of ppl, reading between the lines even if they're saying something seemingly positive or neutral) because I previously had some experience with really toxic ppl/environment, it's not easy to let that go, and I'm not so sure if I actually want to let that go
  • I'm not confident about my ability to excel at this particular area of law I'll be focusing on from now on. As students we rotated through each practice group, and I did not find my performance to be particularly strong in any of my rotations, I was pretty even, and got positive feedbacks from each. I also didn't feel a particular interest towards any specific area -- of course I like what I'm doing now, but my decision to go onto the solicitor side was essentially based on an objective balancing of all factors including my personality and my hatred towards civil procedure

Recognizing these is one thing, but effectively dealing with them is another. I'm wondering if anyone in similar position as me are feeling the same and how are you coping, and I'd appreciate if anyone from senior lawyer/partner's perspective can share what you think, and realistically what are your expectations on who's just started and how can one fulfill such expectations. Many thanks!

 

Additional rant for the day: just attended a client meeting with a partner, who introduced me as an associate, and the client called me an "assistant"... 

it’s easier said than done but you have to stop caring and stop trying to appease/make others around you happy. You can’t make everyone happy. You will never be the smartest person in the room, there will always be someone smarter. But if you work hard at your craft and have a strong work ethic, that will speak volumes and help you develop expertise in your craft. Tune out everything else, do the best you can but otherwise accept that there will be mistakes. Learn from them and move on. Anyone who says they don’t mistakes are liars. Bosses think they know best but then they get a decision where the judge chews them out, even though they have X years of practice at a big firm. Everyone learns. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone grows. Work hard and that will be enough. 
 

In terms of being referred to as an assistant - don’t take that personally, clients don’t understand the nomenclature we use to describe our job titles. I changed my email signature to end with “Name, barrister and solicitor” rather than Associate, so it’s clearer to clients that I’m equally a lawyer. But otherwise just brush it off. 
 

Think more Don Draper or Harvey Spectre, and less Larry David. 

Edited by Bob Jones
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Bob Jones
  • Lawyer
On 8/12/2022 at 3:40 PM, LegalPositivism said:

Appreciate that.

 

Without disclosing too much personal info on this aspect, and certainly not seeking anyone here do a therapist job, I'm wondering if anyone would help provide some practical insight as to what do senior lawyers/partners expect when they ask a fairly junior lawyer to do stuff, and regarding any "mess ups", to what extent will they tolerate and understand that.

I’m not a Partner but I’ve also been around the block for a few years now. I assign tasks to assistants, articling students, or new calls sometimes. For me the biggest annoyance is having to follow-up and missing deadlines. Otherwise it’s not a problem on the first few times if you’re unsure or trying to figure out how to tackle a project. I try to be clear with instructions, provide a precedent for what I’m looking for, and forward the relevant recent correspondence on the file so the person I’m delegating to has all the information. As long as they’re trying and making a meaningful effort that’s good. Missing deadlines, not responding, or having to follow up is the biggest annoyance. I don’t mind sending an email hey you took X approach well but here’s why I was looking for y. That’s how you grow. Obviously though if the same mistake keeps happening then that can get annoying but if the person is new, doing their best and working hard it’s not a problem and nobody really care about minor mistakes here or there, that’s normal. 

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LegalPositivism
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On 8/16/2022 at 8:22 PM, Bob Jones said:

In terms of being referred to as an assistant - don’t take that personally, clients don’t understand the nomenclature we use to describe our job titles. I changed my email signature to end with “Name, barrister and solicitor” rather than Associate, so it’s clearer to clients that I’m equally a lawyer. But otherwise just brush it off. 

I didn't seriously mind that but I feel this is somehow reflective of the strange state I find myself to be in - I only get recognized as a proper "lawyer" where I don't want to/don't feel prepared (not an easy, sweet scenario where I simply get addressed that title to fulfill my vanity lol), such as a lawyer trying to throw an unwanted file at me (just helped out on that during articling, not even the area of law I'm practising) with the reason that "you're a lawyer now, you can independently run files" (I actually stood my ground on that one, agreed to offer some further help but didn't accept the file), or got a call directly from a client asking a bunch of questions on a partner's file, they weren't at their desk then so the client called me instead. Not saying I'm surprised by any of these, I just realize this is the reality I need to gradually learn to deal with.

 

Also appreciate your advice!

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OntheVerge
  • Lawyer

I understand this feeling and it does get better. I entered an area of law that I had never been exposed to, knew nothing, and was (am) frantically trying to learn everything as soon as possible. I was being called a "lawyer" and people (clients/clerks) deferring to me when the clerks knew more than I did 😕 

Some things that helped me:

- Frame everything as a learning opportunity. You're new, mistakes will happen, that's how you learn. Instead of beating yourself up for making a mistake, say "Now I know what to do for next time." It's impossible to not make any mistakes but you won't be making the same mistake 6 months from now, because you'll have handled it once before. A new file where you don't know wtf to do? Ask someone and appreciate that you're getting this exposure. Make your own precedents for each new thing/situation that comes up, so when you get handled a similar file 3 months from now, you can refer back to how you handled it the first time. Ten new files? That's ten new scenarios where you'll learn how to do new things for the future.

- Keep some phrases in the back of your mind for when you get put on the spot. Your example of a client calling you to ask about their file with a different lawyer? "I'll have to check the file/consult with lawyer handling it, and one of us will get back to you with an update." If they press for more information, instead of getting caught out and saying something that might come back to bite you, try "I really can't speak to that now but I can look into it and get back to you."

I get phone calls constantly from clients even when I'm not working on their files and have no clue what they're calling about, so I use the above phrases a lot. Always in a polite tone, but I'd rather a client get mad at me or think I'm dumb when I won't confirm something for them, than the lawyer whose file it is get mad because I promised something that was undeliverable or gave the wrong advice. And you're going to run into a lot of people who think that being circumspect or cautious means you're dumb and/or don't know anything 😕 It's those types of people who will also go running around saying, "but my lawyer told me this!" and then you're in hot water. 

- If you do need to talk with another lawyer because you're not sure and the client is there waiting, use the phrase "Let me consult with Lawyer A" and that way it doesn't sound like you have no clue what the answer is to the question they asked. And don't feel bad about not knowing what the answer is - now you'll know for next time.

Lastly regarding your assistant example, I wouldn't be too fussed. They're not saying that based on any impression of your abilities. I introduce myself to clients as "My name" and "I'm the lawyer working on your file" or "I'm one of the lawyers here", not as a vanity project but because some people still tend to think a woman isn't necessarily the lawyer. Add that to the fact that my name is similar to one of the clerks who deals on a lot of files, and there's been confusion between who is who. And I wouldn't care about  being mistaken for a clerk, but after one meeting with a client, one of the clients aggressively asked if he'd ever be meeting the lawyer working on his file.  Yes, the lawyer on the file has been in the meeting with you for the past hour and spoke to you three times earlier this week. So now I just introduce myself as such to prevent any confusion or worry from the clients that they won't see "the lawyer". 

 

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I didn't really have what I would refer to as imposter syndrome, but learning to be a lawyer is hard, you're going to make mistakes, and you're going to doubt yourself in many situations. For me, the key (along with learning from mistakes) is to tell someone and get help. Never try to hide or cover up a mistake. Go to the lawyer you're working with, tell them what happened, preferably suggest a solution (that won't always be possible, but don't just drop a problem on their lap if you can help it) and work with them to fix it. Almost every mistake is fixable, and you have insurance for the rest. But it won't be fixed if you try to hide it. You can sometimes get away with it, but it can also really blow up on you.

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