September 2022 - Big Law Salaries?

[fdsfhs]

There was a lot of talk last year about BL salaries, especially considering the increases that happened. But what about now? Do we have a sense of the grid these days for the different major cities? (I mean TO, Vancouver, Montreal, Ottawa, Calgary, ...) Also, considering increases are usually in January or February (I'm assuming that's for most firms), will 2022 calls be making the same salary as 2021 calls until that time? Thanks for your time.

Edits: I found a grid for Toronto on the other forum (130, 150, 175, ...) I'm assuming this is still correct? Anyone have the numbers for Mtl and Ottawa? Also, still wondering about that second question.

Edited September 8, 2022 by fdsfhs
Clarifications

[BlockedQuebecois]

@KOMODO set out the current Toronto grid in this post, and that thread contains information for various other cities as well: 

In Toronto, first year associates are first years for about 16 months, from September in their year of call through January in their year of call plus two (i.e. a 2021 call gets their first raise in January 2023).

In most other provinces first years are only first years until January in their year of call plus one (i.e. a 2021 call would have been promoted to second year in 2022 and will be promoted to third year in 2023). 

So if you are in Toronto, yes, 2021 calls and 2022 calls will be making the same salary for the next four months or so. 

[C_Terror]

On 9/8/2022 at 2:58 PM, BlockedQuebecois said:

@KOMODO set out the current Toronto grid in this post, and that thread contains information for various other cities as well: 

In Toronto, first year associates are first years for about 16 months, from September in their year of call through January in their year of call plus two (i.e. a 2021 call gets their first raise in January 2023).

In most other provinces first years are only first years until January in their year of call plus one (i.e. a 2021 call would have been promoted to second year in 2022 and will be promoted to third year in 2023). 

So if you are in Toronto, yes, 2021 calls and 2022 calls will be making the same salary for the next four months or so. 

On a separate but tangentially related note, I always find it misleading when people say juniors in Vancouver/Calgary make a lot less than Toronto, but never clarify that the Western cities don't have a "stub" year like Toronto has. A 1st year 2021 call right now is a 2nd year in Vancouver/Calgary, so the difference in base is not 20K, but closer to like 3-5K or something. And it kind of sucks that you're always 1 year behind. 

[Bob Jones]

On 9/8/2022 at 2:58 PM, BlockedQuebecois said:

@KOMODO set out the current Toronto grid in this post, and that thread contains information for various other cities as well: 

In Toronto, first year associates are first years for about 16 months, from September in their year of call through January in their year of call plus two (i.e. a 2021 call gets their first raise in January 2023).

In most other provinces first years are only first years until January in their year of call plus one (i.e. a 2021 call would have been promoted to second year in 2022 and will be promoted to third year in 2023). 

So if you are in Toronto, yes, 2021 calls and 2022 calls will be making the same salary for the next four months or so. 

Too bad they won’t come close to US salaries 

[Pantalaimon]

12 minutes ago, C_Terror said:

but never clarify

BQ literally just did that, though 😛

[AllWellAndGood]

3 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

Too bad they won’t come close to US salaries 

You'd think as a junior with a good job in beautiful Vancouver I'd stop looking at US opportunities, but it's hard when the difference in exchange rate and income taxes mean that a 3Y in Boston, not even NY, makes the equivalent of 420k in Vancouver 😞

[QueensGrad]

5 hours ago, C_Terror said:

On a separate but tangentially related note, I always find it misleading when people say juniors in Vancouver/Calgary make a lot less than Toronto, but never clarify that the Western cities don't have a "stub" year like Toronto has. A 1st year 2021 call right now is a 2nd year in Vancouver/Calgary, so the difference in base is not 20K, but closer to like 3-5K or something. And it kind of sucks that you're always 1 year behind. 

What's the bonus differential though?

[C_Terror]

22 hours ago, QueensGrad said:

What's the bonus differential though?

Honestly not sure for other firms but it's substantially similar in my firm.

[JadedBayStreetLawyer]

Google Salary Guide - ZSA Legal Recruitment.

Can confirm it is accurate for Toronto Big Law. Source: see username. 

[Bob Jones]

Long shot - does anyone know where the Management-side L&E Firms stand on current salaries in Toronto? Ie Matthews Dinsdale, Filion Wakely, Hicks, Sherrard Kuzz, etc 

[ReasonablePerson]

7 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

Long shot - does anyone know where the Management-side L&E Firms stand on current salaries in Toronto? Ie Matthews Dinsdale, Filion Wakely, Hicks, Sherrard Kuzz, etc 

NALP has info on all of them except Matthews, and they'll probably be similar to each other

[Bob Jones]

Excellent resource but unfortunately “X provides a competitive salary” isn’t that helpful lol

[Pecan Boy]

50 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

Excellent resource but unfortunately “X provides a competitive salary” isn’t that helpful lol

Filion's NALP says 120k for first-years. 

Edit: I see you're a lawyer, not a student. I guess this is still valuable insofar as you can assume it'll be Bay Street scale minus 10k or so

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Pecan Boy

[Bob Jones]

1 hour ago, Pecan Boy said:

Filion's NALP says 120k for first-years. 

Edit: I see you're a lawyer, not a student. I guess this is still valuable insofar as you can assume it'll be Bay Street scale minus 10k or so

 

I saw that for Filion as well so that was my thinking too. Thanks!

[Ex1L]

On 9/8/2022 at 2:58 PM, BlockedQuebecois said:

@KOMODO set out the current Toronto grid in this post, and that thread contains information for various other cities as well: 

In Toronto, first year associates are first years for about 16 months, from September in their year of call through January in their year of call plus two (i.e. a 2021 call gets their first raise in January 2023).

In most other provinces first years are only first years until January in their year of call plus one (i.e. a 2021 call would have been promoted to second year in 2022 and will be promoted to third year in 2023). 

So if you are in Toronto, yes, 2021 calls and 2022 calls will be making the same salary for the next four months or so. 

 

Anyone know if Blaney McMurtry matches this grid?

Edited June 30, 2023 by Ex1L

[helloall]

Given the raises in US BL, it's time for Canadians to pester their firms for similar inflation-adjusted pay raises.

[AllWellAndGood]

29 minutes ago, helloall said:

Given the raises in US BL, it's time for Canadians to pester their firms for similar inflation-adjusted pay raises.

Many firms are going through strategic layoffs around here, not sure it's time to push for another bump after the one last year...

[BlockedQuebecois]

33 minutes ago, AllWellAndGood said:

Many firms are going through strategic layoffs around here, not sure it's time to push for another bump after the one last year...

I don’t know, if they sack one in every five associates, they could increase the survivors’ pay by 25%! 

[Dinsdale]

18 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

I don’t know, if they sack one in every five associates, they could increase the survivors’ pay by 25%! 

Lol.  One of my management partners actually said this with a straight face a few years back. "If we fire an associate, the other associates should be happy as there is now more money and opportunity to go around".

[easttowest]

I’d be blown away if there’s another raise. I think the US has raised twice now since the last one up here two years ago. They’re entirely different markets and we can’t flee to the States on a whim, with signing bonuses, like we could two years ago. 

8 hours ago, AllWellAndGood said:

Many firms are going through strategic layoffs around here, not sure it's time to push for another bump after the one last year...

Which one was that?

[Jaggers]

The last raise took like 14 years. There is certainly not another one on the foreseeable horizon.

[CheeseToast]

I don't mean to start the whole conversation here again but my god do those first years american associates ever bank more than us. Crazy to think that at comparable firms we make roughly a third of what they do for similar work.

[Bob Jones]

5 hours ago, Jaggers said:

The last raise took like 14 years. There is certainly not another one on the foreseeable horizon.

I was hoping the recent US firms to open up shop in Canada would have changed things up, but doesn’t sound like that’s the case, beyond the previous raises. 

[Jaggers]

They’re not “comparable firms”.

[AllWellAndGood]

18 hours ago, easttowest said:

I’d be blown away if there’s another raise. I think the US has raised twice now since the last one up here two years ago. They’re entirely different markets and we can’t flee to the States on a whim, with signing bonuses, like we could two years ago. 

Which one was that?

Sorry, apparently it was two years ago... time flies.