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Toronto vs Vancouver (spliced from September 2022 - Big Law Salaries?)


Jaggers
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4 hours ago, AllWellAndGood said:

You'd think as a junior with a good job in beautiful Vancouver I'd stop looking at US opportunities, but it's hard when the difference in exchange rate and income taxes mean that a 3Y in Boston, not even NY, makes the equivalent of 420k in Vancouver 😞

And you pay extremely high prices for housing, and have nothing to do on the weekend but hike up a mountain? Why not get a better deal for yourself?

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AllWellAndGood
  • Lawyer
On 9/9/2022 at 8:39 PM, Jaggers said:

And you pay extremely high prices for housing, and have nothing to do on the weekend but hike up a mountain? Why not get a better deal for yourself?

The pull of staying in a home town, near family and friends, can be tough when you're raising a family of your own. Feels like an impossible choice really. Oh well, I'm not someone in a position that should be complaining.

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Yeah, we're locked into Toronto due to family connections. I don't have a problem with it right now, but we don't have much ability to leave and maintain our way of life. We'd save a lot of money, but give up a lot of other things.

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JohnsonWest
  • Lawyer
On 9/9/2022 at 8:39 PM, Jaggers said:

And you pay extremely high prices for housing, and have nothing to do on the weekend but hike up a mountain? Why not get a better deal for yourself?

Vancouver beats toronto any day of the week. Stop with this nonsense again lol. 

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Obviously not many people actually think that, but the city is a tiny island where more people want to live than they are willing to build housing for, so the market has definitely spoken.

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JohnsonWest
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34 minutes ago, Jaggers said:

Obviously not many people actually think that, but the city is a tiny island where more people want to live than they are willing to build housing for, so the market has definitely spoken.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/during-the-pandemic-canadians-moved-between-provinces-more-than-in-last-three-decades-report-finds

 

"The estimates show that Ontario and Manitoba saw the highest net losses to interprovincial migration for a second-quarter since at least 1972, losing 11,857 and 3,613 people respectively. Losses were also seen in Saskatchewan (-3,362), Alberta (-5,447), the Northwest Territories (-252) and Nunavut (-91).

Some provinces saw gains from interprovincial migration, as those leaving found another place to live. British Columbia saw the highest net gain for a second-quarter since 1972 with an increase of 15,290 people. Nova Scotia (+4,678), New Brunswick (+2,145), Prince Edward Island (+869), and Quebec (+626) also saw net gains."

 

Market has definitely spoken, you're right. Cheers. 

 

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Yeah, people love climbing the Grouse Grind on the weekend. There is no doubt about it, which is why you will pay $1M for a condo while earning $60K.

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JohnsonWest
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2 minutes ago, Jaggers said:

Yeah, people love climbing the Grouse Grind on the weekend. There is no doubt about it, which is why you will pay $1M for a condo while earning $60K.

Haha, love your trolling. Keep working hard and maybe one day you'll afford to move out here! Would be happy to take you for a hike to one of the nearby majestic mountains, it's a bit nicer than hiking up those nasty skyscrapers on the daily. 

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You can get a decent condo in downtown Vancouver for $600-700k. For what it’s worth. And transit - much as we whine about it - is excellent compared to other cities. Though if you live downtown it’s largely walkable. 

I get this debate is largely tongue in cheek but for people thinking it’s serious, thought I would chime in. 
 

Also we don’t get ice storms. I will never, ever forget my three years of Ontario winters…

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BlockedQuebecois
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Vancouver’s transit is atrocious compared to other major cities. It will be better once the Broadway Subway Project is complete, but the non-bus coverage of Vancouver is currently shameful. 

That’s definitely true in comparison to Toronto, which has one of the best transit systems in North America. 

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Yeah, I'm mostly joking. I haven't lived in Vancouver long term, but I did spend two+ months there working one time. It's not the place I would choose to live, but I can definitely understand why people like it. 

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JohnsonWest
  • Lawyer
12 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Vancouver’s transit is atrocious compared to other major cities. It will be better once the Broadway Subway Project is complete, but the non-bus coverage of Vancouver is currently shameful. 

That’s definitely true in comparison to Toronto, which has one of the best transit systems in North America. 

lol my lord the hyperbole on this forum is something else at times. This is like the time you said Vancouver firms pay a "pittance" compared to Toronto firms. No Vancouver's transit is not atrocious, and if that were the case, BC wouldn't be the province that most Canadians moved to over the course of the pandemic given the high cost of living and that most people would prefer to not have to own cars. I've been here for 30 years, a skytrain + bus route will generally get you anywhere you need to go. 

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BlockedQuebecois
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“People moved to BC during a pandemic when transit ridership was down nearly 50%, therefore BC must have great transit options” is a truly knuckle-headed argument. 

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JohnsonWest
  • Lawyer
1 minute ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

“People moved to BC during a pandemic when transit ridership was down nearly 50%, therefore BC must have great transit options” is a truly knuckle-headed argument. 

Yeah yeah. I've been on this forum long enough to know what a condescending ass you can be. Excuse me while I take a bite of my kale sandwich and ski to work. Cheers. 

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I have spent twenty years taking the B-line, including when I was a student at UBC, and it was fine.

I think the subway line is good but it’s not as though there was nothing at all serving the student community before. 

Anyway Vancouver isn’t perfect - no city is - but it’s still a lovely and livable city for people who are mid to upper class, which includes the vast majority of our posters here.

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BlockedQuebecois
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50 minutes ago, Hegdis said:

I have spent twenty years taking the B-line, including when I was a student at UBC, and it was fine.

I think the subway line is good but it’s not as though there was nothing at all serving the student community before. 

Anyway Vancouver isn’t perfect - no city is - but it’s still a lovely and livable city for people who are mid to upper class, which includes the vast majority of our posters here.

My critique isn’t solely about the Broadway part of the transit network – access to the North Shore is poor, and there are huge gaps in the fast and frequent service that you simply don’t have in cities like Toronto. Toronto’s ten minute or less service covers more of that cities geographical area than Vancouver’s 15 minute or less service.

I do agree that Toronto is a lovely city to live in, though. There’s a reason I’ve spent the majority of my adult life on the West coast. The only thing I took issue with is the assertion that Vancouver’s transit system is excellent. I think Vancouver’s transit system is actually the one major criticism I have of what is otherwise a lovely city. 

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AllWellAndGood
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1 hour ago, Rashabon said:

Vancouver is super boring. I spent a lot of time there in my early 20s and my god is there nothing going on at all ever.

Yeah, well, what does Toronto have, other than culture, art, music scenes, sports, and diverse neighborhoods? Yeah, that's what I thought! 

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Dream Machine
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Toronto also has super affordable housing, ample greenspace, great air pollution levels (people don't seem to acknowledge how harmful this is) and no traffic!

But seriously, I'd rather live in Toronto than Vancouver, as Vancouver suffers from a number of the above things as well, but lacks in some of the positives of Toronto to help make up for it.

I think a stronger case can be made for other cities in Canada if one is looking for a Toronto alternative.

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The attraction of Vancouver isn't just the city life - I agree other cities have more of that. The attraction of Vancouver is it's on the West Coast, right on the ocean, and all that comes with it. There's world class mountain biking (anyone who bikes knows the North Shore), incredible sailing/kyaking, and all levels of hiking, nearly all year round. If you like to live outdoors 365 days a year AND you want to get worldclass sushi at 11pm, catch an NHL game, or watch Adele in concert, Vancouver is a great place.

Other places have many of those things. But very few have all of them so close together.

If I were more of a city person - if I didn't mind being essentially indoors between November and February - I'd probably prefer Toronto. To each their own.

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I'd say that I've always preferred Toronto because it has such a diversity of things to do (non-outdoors stuff, admittedly... you need to drive quite a way to get to much nature, other than a few small pockets) but that calculation might be changing now that we have a toddler. But we're kind of locked in here, because we have the inlaws nearby who help us a lot, and they're both 60ish and love everything about the diversity of things to do.

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easttowest
  • Lawyer

I don’t care enough about the outdoors to make Vancouver make sense. Otherwise I wouldn’t have left. Now that I have and am back in Toronto, the farthest west I’d go is Hamilton and I’d sooner go east coast than west.  

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easttowest
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10 hours ago, Jaggers said:

Did you say "Hamilton" or "Halifax"? I've heard of both, but which is farther from Toronto?

Hamilton is the farthest to the west I’d move. 

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