Feeling Demoralized - Should I take this Offer?

[litigationlawyer01]

Hi all - for context, I graduated from an Ontario law school in 2021 and was called to the bar this past summer. I articled at a small boutique litigation firm. While I have a strong resume of moots, clinics, and summer positions, my grades are not great (I graduated with a B average). While my firm extended an offer to return as an Associate, I chose not to take it for various reasons, one being that I'm looking for a larger firm with multiple practice areas (I articled in a very niche field). 

After getting ghosted from a prominent firm downtown Toronto, to say I'm feeling demoralized is an absolute understatement. It's a feeling I'm sure most of you can relate to. I started looking for Associate positions in the summer, and I've been coming up very short.

I do have one offer on the table from a small/mid-size firm practicing in areas I'm somewhat interested in (family, real estate, wills/estates, and some corporate/commercial). They have great work culture, strong mentorship values, and flexibility to work at-home or in-office. My two biggest concerns are that: (a) they are not a well-recognized firm, and (b) their compensation structure is completely fee-split. All my expenses/overhead are covered, and a steady flow of files will be provided by the firm, but of course I'm still concerned of how this will play out (practically, I only get paid on billed and collected funds). 

My questions are:

1. Will I be at a disadvantage for starting my career at a lesser known firm or should I wait for an offer from a more prominent firm? Would the positives (mentorship, great work environment) outweigh that?

2. Are there any concerns about working in a fee-split arrangement that I'm overlooking? Should I wait for a salaried offer?

Thank you so much for your advice. 

[Aureliuse]

3 hours ago, litigationlawyer01 said:

1. Will I be at a disadvantage for starting my career at a lesser known firm or should I wait for an offer from a more prominent firm? Would the positives (mentorship, great work environment) outweigh that?

My short answer is: No. I speak from experience having been to both sides (Bay St. and where I am now - mid-sized litigation firm).

Be careful of falling into the trap of worshiping "brand names" of law. Also, I would choose positive work environment and great mentorship as a junior over high salary and "prestigious name" every time. Mentorship is especially valuable. It is a rare commodity these days. Grass is not always greener on the other side. Some big firms have a high turn-over rate. Please ask yourself why that is so.

Smaller firms offer more "hands-on" experience than big law firms. At big firms, where as junior, you might not get an opportunity to litigate on your own (and learn your mistakes and style). At big firms, you most likely would end up as another "Santa's Elf" in the massive machine. I gained most of my litigation experience working in smaller cities outside the urban centers.

Conversely, big firms let you see "high end" files and see how the "grand masters" of the profession operate. It may also help you pay down your debts faster from a higher salary (assuming your cost of living doesn't cancel it out). Nonetheless, you might not be able to control your work load most of the time. The pressure can also be intense.

However, at smaller firms, once you have the requisite experience, and distinguish yourself in your field, you can always make the hop. 

[Cool_name]

Yes, I would take the offer. Being employed at a firm is better than not being employed at all. 
 

Not much use to you now, but for the benefit of future people, I would have taken the offer from your articling firm and then kept looking. I don’t see the logic is declining the offer just to look for another offer as you could have looked for another offer anyway.

[LMP]

9 minutes ago, Cool_name said:

Yes, I would take the offer. Being employed at a firm is better than not being employed at all. 
 

Not much use to you now, but for the benefit of future people, I would have taken the offer from your articling firm and then kept looking. I don’t see the logic is declining the offer just to look for another offer as you could have looked for another offer anyway.

Doesn't articling have certian guidelines set out by the LSO? I don't think you can just job hop during that period.

[CleanHands]

5 minutes ago, LMP said:

Doesn't articling have certian guidelines set out by the LSO? I don't think you can just job hop during that period.

The OP has completed articles and is seeking a post-call job.

[LMP]

7 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

The OP has completed articles and is seeking a post-call job.

I misread. My bad.

Edited September 27, 2022 by LMP
My mistake.

[CleanHands]

1 minute ago, LMP said:

I'm aware. The comment I'm responding to suggests (to my understanding) taking an articling job and countinuing to job hunt from there. Which is what I was inquiring about. 

The OP mentioned declining a hireback offer as an associate from the firm they articled with, and the member you responded to was commenting upon that.

[Bob Jones]

14 hours ago, litigationlawyer01 said:

Hi all - for context, I graduated from an Ontario law school in 2021 and was called to the bar this past summer. I articled at a small boutique litigation firm. While I have a strong resume of moots, clinics, and summer positions, my grades are not great (I graduated with a B average). While my firm extended an offer to return as an Associate, I chose not to take it for various reasons, one being that I'm looking for a larger firm with multiple practice areas (I articled in a very niche field). 

After getting ghosted from a prominent firm downtown Toronto, to say I'm feeling demoralized is an absolute understatement. It's a feeling I'm sure most of you can relate to. I started looking for Associate positions in the summer, and I've been coming up very short.

I do have one offer on the table from a small/mid-size firm practicing in areas I'm somewhat interested in (family, real estate, wills/estates, and some corporate/commercial). They have great work culture, strong mentorship values, and flexibility to work at-home or in-office. My two biggest concerns are that: (a) they are not a well-recognized firm, and (b) their compensation structure is completely fee-split. All my expenses/overhead are covered, and a steady flow of files will be provided by the firm, but of course I'm still concerned of how this will play out (practically, I only get paid on billed and collected funds). 

My questions are:

1. Will I be at a disadvantage for starting my career at a lesser known firm or should I wait for an offer from a more prominent firm? Would the positives (mentorship, great work environment) outweigh that?

2. Are there any concerns about working in a fee-split arrangement that I'm overlooking? Should I wait for a salaried offer?

Thank you so much for your advice. 

Don’t feel demoralized at all. You’re doing the best you can and the fact is there’s only so many positions available. If you’re trying to get into Bay St Firms, unfortunately so are almost everyone else but the legal market is much smaller here than the US. There’s few positions available and too many applicants. So don’t feel down on yourself, you can always try again later as an Associate, those firms are always hiring and lawyers jump jobs all the time. 
 

The key right now is to get as much experience as you can. Then try to reapply in 1-2 years with something more substantial to show on your resume. 
 

In terms of comps, unfortunately a lot of smaller firms offer fee splits. They don’t have the same resources as larger firms and will try to sell you on the sun moon and stars with fee splits but in reality it is very brutal and unrealistic. I would try negotiating for a base salary + bonus structure. Assuming they tell you to take a hike and this is the only job you have, maybe try it for 4-6 months but then reapply somewhere else. Just don’t keep jumping jobs every 6 months long term, but it’s not unheard of to change jobs particularly when starting off. 
 

I’m not too worried that you’re starting at a smaller firm, we all have to start somewhere and Bennett Jones and Dentons aren’t exactly banging all of our doors down with job offers lol. The fee split is sketchy id avoid it but if you must then only for a short period of time and move on. Law firms are businesses designed to squeeze every last drop of blood from us by overworking us and under paying. Be courteous, professional, and open minded, but ultimately stay loyal to yourself. 
 

good luck!

[hiccups]

19 hours ago, litigationlawyer01 said:

After getting ghosted from a prominent firm downtown Toronto, to say I'm feeling demoralized is an absolute understatement. It's a feeling I'm sure most of you can relate to.

You don't need to feel demoarlized. There are tonus of applications thrown at these firms and they won't reply to every single one. Market is also tough for new calls!

[litstint]

I agree with the other posters that I would probably take the offer to start building up some experience, plus getting mentorship as a junior is huge. 

I would just add that if you plan to keep looking try connecting with a recruiter, if you haven't already. Not saying it's always the way to go, or that you should you should stop job hunting on your own, but sometimes they will know of openings at firms that aren't posted and can give some helpful background on firms that you can't get from the firm website. 

[MapleLeafs]

not to derail the thread, but if you accept a return associate offer from the firm you articled with, are you still able to search for associate positions at other firms? 

[BlockedQuebecois]

11 minutes ago, MapleLeafs said:

not to derail the thread, but if you accept a return associate offer from the firm you articled with, are you still able to search for associate positions at other firms? 

I’m confused by why you would even think that. Associates are employees, not indentured servants.  They can quit whenever they want (and they do quit, all the time). 

Edited September 27, 2022 by BlockedQuebecois

[MapleLeafs]

1 hour ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

I’m confused by why you would even think that. Associates are employees, not indentured servants.  They can quit whenever they want (and they do quit, all the time). 

There's usually a gap of a few months between articling and when you start as a first year associate. I was just wondering if you're able to search for associate positions at other firms during that period 

[BlockedQuebecois]

8 minutes ago, MapleLeafs said:

There's usually a gap of a few months between articling and when you start as a first year associate. I was just wondering if you're able to search for associate positions at other firms during that period 

That’s a different question. 

There are no regulatory issue with hunting for a job during the break between articling and starting as an associate, as there is with looking for a summer or articling position after accepting an offer (at least in Ontario). But there are significant reputational issues with doing so, and young lawyers should carefully consider those issues before engaging in conduct that a lot of people would view as unethical. 

[Bob Jones]

17 hours ago, MapleLeafs said:

There's usually a gap of a few months between articling and when you start as a first year associate. I was just wondering if you're able to search for associate positions at other firms during that period 

Can’t see why not. Try and give notice if you want to quit so you end things amicably but there shouldn’t be any legal issue. If you have an employment contract which you need interpreted then you should reach out to a lawyer for legal advice. 
 

But in terms of job advancement/practice management, people change jobs all the time. All good. 

[BlockedQuebecois]

31 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

Can’t see why not. Try and give notice if you want to quit so you end things amicably but there shouldn’t be any legal issue.

Most firms aren’t going to view someone reneging on an accepted job offer before they start in an amicable light. That’s the point. 

[Jaggers]

They won't like it, but they probably won't remember it a year later either.

[Bob Jones]

2 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Most firms aren’t going to view someone reneging on an accepted job offer before they start in an amicable light. That’s the point. 

If the individual is concerned about leaving a sour taste by resigning, whether they resign before accepting an offer or 5 years into a job, employers always at first aren’t thrilled but ultimately the world keeps spinning and people move on. Can’t make everyone happy.

 

if the individual was concerned with the legal implications of resigning before starting a job, then I was suggesting they contact a lawyer. 

[Rashabon]

22 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Most firms aren’t going to view someone reneging on an accepted job offer before they start in an amicable light. That’s the point. 

I'll say it depends. I had a junior we hired back last year that went to New York a week into their orientation. No hard feelings.

Over the years there have been juniors hired back that pivoted in terms of practice area and so left before starting back up, or right away, and similarly, not a ton of hard feelings. Admittedly I hadn't seen the super senior reactions to it but it didn't strike me that anyone made a huge fuss.