Could a bad assistant become a good lawyer?

[stampedelaw]

Not sure whether this is the right place for this post, but I'll ask anyway.

I had experience of working as an admin assistant at a big law firm. However, I feel I'm not a good fit for this type of work. It's very miscellaneous in nature, including tasks like printing and scanning, filing minute books, replying emails, sorting mails, ordering supplies, handling invoices, etc. And assistants are treated like the bottom of the hierarchy at a big law firm, which makes me feel uncomfortable. I'm not very good at multitasking and don't feel my work is valuable and appreciated. So I left the firm at last when it became more and more stressful and before I was on the verge of being fired.  But I've been always interested in law. I enjoy reading and writing. I'm not sure whether my failure of being a good assistant is an indicator that I won't become a competent lawyer either. I already submitted my law school applications this year, with a LSAT score 163 (not high but ok for a couple of schools). While waiting for the results, I have self doubt and can't help asking myself this question. 

[CleanHands]

Anecdotal but FWIW I am abysmal at administrative and clerical duties and eternally grateful to my legal assistants for doing a far better job with those tasks than I would be able to. And I like to think (and the feedback I've gotten suggests) that I'm an okay lawyer. It's a very different skillset.

I won't belabour the point, I'll just say that you shouldn't let this hold you back. And it's great to have that experience to have developed empathy and appreciation for your future assistants!

[KOMODO]

Honestly, based on your comments, it doesn't sound like being a lawyer would be a very good fit. Multi-tasking is essential and there are lots of bits and pieces that need to get done randomly. Depending on the type of law, it's not uncommon for lawyers to feel unappreciated by their clients, colleagues, opposing counsel, etc. Stress and burnout are major factors in this profession. 

[Yogurt Baron]

Longtime-aspiring-lawyer-turned-legal-support-staff here: I'm the last person who can advise you on whether you'd be a good lawyer, but I can say that many of the lawyers I know would be atrocious assistants - that's why they have assistants. It's a different job. Things not having worked out well in one job doesn't mean you'll be bad at a different job requiring a different skill set.

On the other hand, KOMODO raises a couple of good points too. Particularly, the issue of being treated badly by others is always on the table in any kind of role where you're providing someone a service, and if you're assuming, "Well, when I'm a lawyer, I'll be Somebody, and therefore no one will ever give me a hard time again!"...no.

[LMP]

I've got limited experience having only worked as a law student but I'd agree with much of what is written above. 

But, I'd also add that being aware of your weakness can be a big help. You've identified some things you struggle with and you can use your time in and leading up to law school to work on them. 

You can seek out areas of law that amplify your strengths and put less pressure on your weaknesses. 

I think it is amazing that you've honestly reflected on this sort of stuff and if you use that refection constructively you should be just fine. 

[CleanHands]

1 hour ago, KOMODO said:

 Depending on the type of law, it's not uncommon for lawyers to feel unappreciated by their clients, colleagues, opposing counsel, etc.

 

41 minutes ago, Yogurt Baron said:

On the other hand, KOMODO raises a couple of good points too. Particularly, the issue of being treated badly by others is always on the table in any kind of role where you're providing someone a service, and if you're assuming, "Well, when I'm a lawyer, I'll be Somebody, and therefore no one will ever give me a hard time again!"...no.

I must say though, having worked a variety of service jobs over the years, the dynamic as a lawyer is different even when you're being subjected to abuse. Unless you work at a terribly toxic firm with abusive partners and senior lawyers, people can treat you badly but there is rarely the same element (which is sadly a daily feature of many service jobs) of people punching down on you without consequence while you have absolutely no recourse and are expected to just take it.

[stampedelaw]

Thanks for all your comments here! Maybe I worried too early at this stage. After all I haven't been accepted by any law school yet. If I am accepted and could survive law school, I'll try to see whether I can survive as a lawyer first. If not, a law degree can still open many doors. So I'll try to think less of this for now. Still, many thanks.

Edited December 1, 2022 by stampedelaw

[CleanHands]

1 minute ago, stampedelaw said:

If not, a law degree can still open many doors.

This is where the bad news comes in: far fewer doors outside lawyering than people tend to think.

[123]

4 hours ago, KOMODO said:

Multi-tasking is essential and there are lots of bits and pieces that need to get done randomly. Depending on the type of law, it's not uncommon for lawyers to feel unappreciated by their clients, colleagues, opposing counsel, etc. Stress and burnout are major factors in this profession. 

I think this is true. But there are rewarding parts of practice that probably don’t exist at the assistant level. Idk whether that would make the jobs worthwhile, if someone really struggled with the other aspects of law as a stressful service job, but I think there are countervailing factors. 

[Ramesses]

Absolutely. What you do as an assistant is different than what you do as a lawyer. I think recognizing your strengths and weaknesses is going to go a long way for you. Good luck!

[freshsocks]

No, they couldn't.

Edited December 1, 2022 by freshsocks

[Psychometronic]

Thinking like a lawyer and doing the day-to-day work of a lawyer can be different things. I have a really good assistant who BFs my calendar and reminds me of upcoming deadlines but I would have a hard time doing my job if couldn't task-switch quickly or rearrange my priorities or maintain a system where can stay on top of my tasks. Some of the work of a legal assistant bleeds into lawyering but not all of it. If you struggle with staying organized, it may impact your practice (even with a good assistant).

With that said, your LSAT score suggests you can think like a lawyer so it is worth trying law school to see if this work is a fit for you. Just keep in mind that the traditional version of law school is very theoretical and does not teach you the skills necessary of the day-to-day work of lawyering. These skills come from actual file work, clinics, and workshops. If you are admitted, try to get as much hands-on experience as you can. These will be the best indicators of whether this profession is a good fit for you.

[Toad]

2 hours ago, CleanHands said:

This is where the bad news comes in: far fewer doors outside lawyering than people tend to think.

And also closes some doors that would otherwise be open to you because people will think you're a flight risk. 

[JohnsonWest]

Most days I love being a lawyer and really hate anything I need to do that's within the purview of an assistant/paralegal. So to answer your question, I say go for it. 

[Jaggers]

They are completely different jobs. There are threads/discussions about whether going to law school is right for you, and I'd suggest considering those factors completely independently of whether you liked being a legal assistant.

[existentialdread]

4 hours ago, CleanHands said:

 

I must say though, having worked a variety of service jobs over the years, the dynamic as a lawyer is different even when you're being subjected to abuse. Unless you work at a terribly toxic firm with abusive partners and senior lawyers, people can treat you badly but there is rarely the same element (which is sadly a daily feature of many service jobs) of people punching down on you without consequence while you have absolutely no recourse and are expected to just take it.

Wanted to echo this. Although I am not a lawyer or student myself yet, I am someone who has spent a few years as an assistant and office manager in the hopes that it would get me ahead in this application process/help me make connections. I don't want to toot my own horn or inflate the role of an assistant because maybe this isn't super common at other firms (I worked somewhere that is a disorganized mess), but I was very much considered the "glue" holding that place together. I was a good assistant. I got more praise from my colleagues than I ever did by clients, but some clients seemed to know I was the one behind the scenes making sure things didn't get forgotten--that always felt good. It was never acceptable to yell at staff and that was a situation that usually resulted in a stern talking to from the lawyer on file, but yelling at the lawyer on file usually meant that the client was instantly fired. 

 

The good: I got exposure to the nitty gritty parts of the job and I learned a ton that will probably put me ahead of the curve when it comes to drafting documents, court etiquette, procedure, etc. My knowledge of this profession extends far beyond what you see on TV. 

The bad: underpaid, under-appreciated, blamed for shit that wasn't my fault, getting treated like garbage by clients where there was seemingly no real consequences until they brought that same energy to the lawyer on the file, doing work that was unsatisfying or felt redundant (basic administrative tasks), being treated like an expense rather than an asset (assistants cost you money vs. associates make you money), being talked down to by people who know less than you about certain things, having people devalue your role ("you're just a secretary", "you just answer phones"), etc.

 

My whole point being is that assistant work can be an asset down the line for the learning opportunities I outlined above, but it is not the end all be all and likely not a good determinant of how good you would be as a lawyer. I worked for lawyers who couldn't keep a god damned thing straight, and that's why they hired me. They were good lawyers but disorganized and desperately needed someone who could manage their calendars, monitor outstanding disclosure, do client intakes, prepare trial binders, draft documents for them, run interference with needy clients who needed their hands held, etc. So no, I think it's entirely possible to be a bad assistant but a good lawyer. What is most important is understanding that the roles are fundamentally different but still have crossover, and good assistants are an asset that can make your practice more productive and profitable, or they can sink you. Treat them accordingly. 

 

[Cool_name]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:37 PM, stampedelaw said:

If not, a law degree can still open many doors.

This is a lie law school admissions peddles which supportive, but oblivious, parents and friends parrot. 
 

Beside being a lawyer, a law degree does not open any doors worth the cost of tuition. The degree, through debt, and other reasons can in fact close doors (debt load, and people questioning why you didn’t become a lawyer).
 

Im being dramatic, but the size of law school debt is too large to attend law school based on anything other than an intention to be a lawyer. You may hate law, that’s a risk, but you should attend at least with the intention of being a lawyer. 
 

Don’t get me wrong, I like being a lawyer and enjoy my work, but my debt would feel much more like a ball and chain if I didn’t.

 

 

to the point of the thread, there is no way I could be an assistant (at all, not just a good one).

[Hegdis]

Agree with the above.

Don't go to law school if you don't want to be a lawyer. A law degree looks nice but it's just window dressing for other pursuits - with a hefty price tag.

[stampedelaw]

9 hours ago, Cool_name said:

This is a lie law school admissions peddles which supportive, but oblivious, parents and friends parrot. 
 

Beside being a lawyer, a law degree does not open any doors worth the cost of tuition. The degree, through debt, and other reasons can in fact close doors (debt load, and people questioning why you didn’t become a lawyer).
 

Im being dramatic, but the size of law school debt is too large to attend law school based on anything other than an intention to be a lawyer. You may hate law, that’s a risk, but you should attend at least with the intention of being a lawyer. 
 

Don’t get me wrong, I like being a lawyer and enjoy my work, but my debt would feel much more like a ball and chain if I didn’t.

 

 

to the point of the thread, there is no way I could be an assistant (at all, not just a good one).

Thanks for advice. Yes I want to be a lawyer, but just not sure about whether I could be competent enough to be a lawyer. A couple of my instructors of the legal assistant program used to be lawyer but they are grateful that they can be teachers now. I used to be an instructor in a university before, so I think maybe I could become an instructor of law programs or a researcher in law just in case. This is my Plan B. And fortunately Canadian law schools are way less expensive than those of US, so it's totally affordable for me, without having to be in debt. I feel like I will enjoy law school, but don't know whether I'll enjoy being a lawyer.  However, it seems there's no way to tell but to try it.

[Yogurt Baron]

18 hours ago, stampedelaw said:

I think maybe I could become an instructor of law programs or a researcher in law just in case.

I guess it depends what you mean by "instructor", "law programs", and "researcher", but I just want to flag that becoming a law professor at a law school requires a level of academic excellence that's beyond most of us. Now, if you're talking about teaching in the paralegal program at some unaccredited career college, that's a different thing.

[duck]

I spent about five years as a legal intern-assistant-summer student at a big international firm and I can absolutely understand some of your frustrations with feeling overwhelmed and stressed out. Being good at administrative work is not easy. It requires a lot of attention to a lot of details all the time and you face the brunt of everyone's frustrations. My coworker was yelled at by a partner because the printer was broken (not her fault lol). That type of treatment alone can be enough for you to feel incompetent, even when you are doing a decent job. 

If it helps, I've met a lot of legal assistants turned lawyers who didn't particularly enjoy or excel at their past work but are excellent litigators and solicitors. Just having the work experience you do gives you an edge. I suspect that I was only successful in the recruit was because my interviewers looked really favourably on my past administrative experience. I think most people in the field know that legal assistants/paralegals/admin staff have it bad (unfortunately that doesn't always translate into appreciation). 

 

 

[SNAILS]

I'm going to go against the grain of most of the posts here. I feel that the skills of an "assistant" are very valuable if you are a lawyer. (Of course, I have not actually been a lawyer, but I am familiar with the being an assistant and how that impacts the lawyer).

As a lawyer, you should know where you are supposed to be and what you are supposed to do, not just today, but in days and weeks coming up. You need to know, generally, what documents need to be filed, what communications with clients need to happen, and what was last promised to a judge or a client that would be done. You do not need to know this in detail, but you need to know it enough that you know if your assistant is or is not doing it (and which assistant is supposed to be doing what). If you do not do this, your subordinates will be unhappy and you'll have staff turnover. People like me are going to be inundated with clients calling and throwing around the F-Bomb. Judges are going to admonish people like me for not getting proper instructions.  Law clerks/paralegals use the term "babysitting" quite appropriately for a disorganized lawyer. You are not respected by your own staff.

Lawyers (some anyway) like to think that their job is so high level that knowing where they are supposed to be and what they are supposed to be doing is beneath them. In a criminal setting, negotiating a plea for a person accused of assault - domestic to take part in an assault counselling program is not that impressive. Having a law clerk close a real estate deal on your behalf is not high lawyer work. Some lawyers need to get their heads out of the clouds. 

I also reject the myth that a person just is a bad assistant. (Some kind of a "I was born that way" argument?). I think the analogy of a slob is apt: if you don't shower or put on clean clothes, you can pull yourself together and improve.

[stampedelaw]

Hi everyone. I want to update this post now. After leaving the big law and working at a small firm for a while, I was convinced that I'm actually a pretty good assistant!

I love my new team and my work is always appreciated. Lawyers are nice and patient there. I learn new stuff everyday and feel motivated. In addition, I already got offers of admission from two law schools so far, still waiting for my dream offer though. 

So now I'm more confident about the prospect of being a lawyer. And the lesson I learned from this experience is that a good fit is more important than reputation of big law.