UofT vs Dalhousie

[Jimmy McGill]

Hi all,

I have been accepted to both schools and am hoping for some guidance and feedback from others in aiding to make my decision.

Background: I live in Halifax (grew up here) so I would be leaving a considerable portion of my life behind (friends, significant other of 5 years, the city itself which I love). My family would likely move with me to Toronto if I were to leave. Although I have not been exposed to either yet, I am pretty certain I would want to pursue a career in either criminal or corporate. With Halifax being a smaller, less populated city, I fear that it would be harder to build a strong high-paying career here than it would be in a big city like Toronto which has huge firms (e.g., Baystreet).

Dilemma: I did not expect to be accepted to UofT, and had planned to attend Dal all along. But since receiving the acceptance offer, I can't help but feel it would be a waste of an opportunity not to go to the #1 school in the country. It seems like this could open many doors for my future, especially if I decide to pursue BigLaw, but it would be at the cost of my social life and relationships. On the flip side, if I attend UofT and realize I want to do crim, I will have immense debt that could be difficult paying off and perhaps Dalhousie would have been the better fit. More than anything, I just want some guidance from people who are well versed with this topic/these schools/have similar experiences who could shed light on whether declining UofT would be a mistake or whether choosing either school would even have much of an impact on my career prospects.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.

[goodisgood]

It's a lot to give up. I would try to talk to lawyers in criminal law and corporate law ASAP and really try to get an idea of why it's interesting for them as well as what the pain points are to see if they jive with what you're feeling. Asking stuff like "why corporate law" or "why criminal law" from the perspective of Crown or the defence side, or what the most interesting file they've gotten to work on, etc. may be helpful, or even going to the corporate & criminal sections of this board if you haven't already could assist you. 

Biglaw: 

Crim Def: 

Crim Crown: 

You may know this already, but tuition at Dalhousie is around $21k. UofT is nearly $35k (though often there's financial aid that can cut down this cost). But you also need to account for moving fees, rent, bringing your family over, etc which is going to further jack up costs. Bringing your family over is a potential source of added stress and may shoehorn you into certain areas of law. 

Also, going to Dalhousie doesn't preclude you from getting a big law job in Toronto. Dalhousie has placed every year I looked on UV. Of course, UofT places more... but that's at least partially because more people who go to UofT want to work in Toronto. 

Edited December 10, 2022 by goodisgood
added links

[notnotadog]

I went to UofT thinking I probably wanted to do crim, but open to other things as well. Like many, I ended up doing the biglaw thing for my 1L/2L summers. I'm now articling and, guess what, I want to do crim. And I have a whole lot of debt that would make that very difficult. I don't regret my choice because I had a great time and excellent opportunities at UofT that I would not take back, but I do wish I thought it over more seriously back when I had rose-coloured glasses on post-admission. The cost of attending limits you in a very real way and limits what you can do. Feel free to PM me if you want to chat more. 

Edited December 10, 2022 by notnotadog

[123]

44 minutes ago, notnotadog said:

I went to UofT thinking I probably wanted to do crim, but open to other things as well. Like many, I ended up doing the biglaw thing for my 1L/2L summers. I'm now articling and, guess what, I want to do crim. And I have a whole lot of debt that would make that very difficult. I don't regret my choice because I had a great time and excellent opportunities at UofT that I would not take back, but I do wish I thought it over more seriously back when I had rose-coloured glasses on post-admission. The cost of attending limits you in a very real way and limits what you can do. Feel free to PM me if you want to chat more. 

I didn’t go to U of T. I went to Dal and ended up in Toronto, where I did start out in crim and now practice in a similar-paying area of law. I’m happy with where I am now.  I don’t think I could manage U of T levels of debt. It wouldn’t have been financially viable. 

[CleanHands]

10 hours ago, notnotadog said:

I don't regret my choice because I had a great time and excellent opportunities at UofT that I would not take back

Good thing you had all of those opportunities you didn't want. lol

[Jimmy McGill]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. 

i have another question as well: would it be significantly more difficult to get higher grades at a top school like UofT compared to Dalhousie? Or would it be pretty similar?

[goodisgood]

57 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. 

i have another question as well: would it be significantly more difficult to get higher grades at a top school like UofT compared to Dalhousie? Or would it be pretty similar?

Iterations of this question have been asked multiple times. The general consensus is, you can't game the curve and if you've got to ask if you can be a top performer at a "top school", you probably aren't going to be a top performer at a "top school". Consider reading Rashabon and AllRise's posts in the following topic (though there's a lot of insightful stuff from other posters as well): 
 

Finding the place where you feel like you'll have the tools and support system to do well is probably what is more important. 

Edited December 12, 2022 by goodisgood

[Conge]

That's a tough one.

I went to Dalhousie. It's a great school, and Halifax is a great little city, especially for a young adult/professional student. I have no regrets with Dalhousie and I've had very good career outcomes (to date).

However, I'd strongly lean towards UofT, if I were you. Especially considering you already grew up in Halifax; even more so if you did an undergraduate degree in NS. I don't think you'll have any significant barriers to coming home to work where you can demonstrate a practical reason for wanting to be in Halifax vs. Toronto. Halifax firms are wary of students who need articles because they struck out at OCIs in Ontario and will leave after getting called. They generally look for a "connection" to NS, though that might be changing everyone seems desperate for associates these days. 

The obvious issue is the money: it's an extra $42k (or so?) to go to UofT, and I'm not sure it's worth the premium. It's wise to minimize debt to the extent reasonably possible, especially if you reasonably think you might end up in an area of law that doesn't pay the high salaries, or if you'll end up working in Halifax, where salaries aren't good until you get several years of experience (and, even then, you'll always earn less than you could in TO, all other things being equal, where taking on the extra $42k in debt would be more manageable).

 

[AllyfromtheNorth]

On 12/13/2022 at 10:03 AM, Conge said:

That's a tough one.

I went to Dalhousie. It's a great school, and Halifax is a great little city, especially for a young adult/professional student. I have no regrets with Dalhousie and I've had very good career outcomes (to date).

However, I'd strongly lean towards UofT, if I were you. Especially considering you already grew up in Halifax; even more so if you did an undergraduate degree in NS. I don't think you'll have any significant barriers to coming home to work where you can demonstrate a practical reason for wanting to be in Halifax vs. Toronto. Halifax firms are wary of students who need articles because they struck out at OCIs in Ontario and will leave after getting called. They generally look for a "connection" to NS, though that might be changing everyone seems desperate for associates these days. 

The obvious issue is the money: it's an extra $42k (or so?) to go to UofT, and I'm not sure it's worth the premium. It's wise to minimize debt to the extent reasonably possible, especially if you reasonably think you might end up in an area of law that doesn't pay the high salaries, or if you'll end up working in Halifax, where salaries aren't good until you get several years of experience (and, even then, you'll always earn less than you could in TO, all other things being equal, where taking on the extra $42k in debt would be more manageable).

 

I concur with this. I am currently trying to choose between Dal and Osgoode, and I had a lawyer tell me (I work as a LA) that during OCIs they are more skeptical of Ontario students. The lawyer I spoke with said that if you don’t have ties to NS, the interview team are very wary of why you’re applying from Ontario (that’s not your case, though). Additionally, they said it would be easier for you to get hired by a Halifax firm with a degree from UofT/Osgoode than vice versa. Lastly, they made a point of choosing where you want to see yourself in the future. Do you want to work in Atlantic Canada, or would you like to work in other places like New York? If you want the freedom to choose, go with the higher-ranked school. 

 

Hope this helps!

[Lararine]

On 12/15/2022 at 7:37 AM, AllyfromtheNorth said:

I concur with this. I am currently trying to choose between Dal and Osgoode, and I had a lawyer tell me (I work as a LA) that during OCIs they are more skeptical of Ontario students. The lawyer I spoke with said that if you don’t have ties to NS, the interview team are very wary of why you’re applying from Ontario (that’s not your case, though). Additionally, they said it would be easier for you to get hired by a Halifax firm with a degree from UofT/Osgoode than vice versa. Lastly, they made a point of choosing where you want to see yourself in the future. Do you want to work in Atlantic Canada, or would you like to work in other places like New York? If you want the freedom to choose, go with the higher-ranked school. 

 

Hope this helps!

I am having same dilemma and this is really helpful！

Thank you!