Should I even bother reapplying ?

[LawstudentinCanada]

I got rejected everywhere, waitlisted at Single JD and then rejected - and waiting on the Dual. I did get rejected from Ryerson, Western before my final grades went in. 

 

I am rethinking of doing the lsat and reapplying for the next cycle - and I have already studied but I want to know if its even worth it at this point?

My L2 - 3.72 

CGPA - 3.1 (reasons provided) 

LSAT - 151 (from this previous cycle) 

Decent ECS and reference letters 

 

If I was to reapply I am hoping it would be with a much better lsat score. I feel defeated and hopeless, and was wondering if anyone can give any words of wisdom on whether or not a better lsat score can get me into an Ontario law school? 

 

Do I also need to change my references, as it would be a year old? Or can I keep my last year references and use the exact same thing again?

[NowOrNever]

Get your LSAT to 161+ and you will get into somewhere.

[luckycharm]

10 minutes ago, LawstudentinCanada said:

I got rejected everywhere, waitlisted at Single JD and then rejected - and waiting on the Dual. I did get rejected from Ryerson, Western before my final grades went in. 

 

I am rethinking of doing the lsat and reapplying for the next cycle - and I have already studied but I want to know if its even worth it at this point?

My L2 - 3.72 

CGPA - 3.1 (reasons provided) 

LSAT - 151 (from this previous cycle) 

Decent ECS and reference letters 

 

If I was to reapply I am hoping it would be with a much better lsat score. I feel defeated and hopeless, and was wondering if anyone can give any words of wisdom on whether or not a better lsat score can get me into an Ontario law school? 

 

Do I also need to change my references, as it would be a year old? Or can I keep my last year references and use the exact same thing again?

Are your L2 and cGPA 3.1 per OLSAS basis?

[Apple]

You absolutely have a great opportunity to get in if you improve your LSAT. A mid 160 combined with your L2 will put you in the running for schools such as Western and Queens. Ottawa is a cGPA school so this one might be harder to get into even with a higher LSAT. You're likely out of the running from UofT, but with a stronger LSAT you do have a decent shot at Osgoode. 

If you can improve that LSAT score you should see some offers upon reapplying. Of course this all depends on the respective competitiveness of any application cycle, but surely there is reason to keep your head up. 

You wouldn't have to get new references per say, but they'll have to resubmit them. It might be worthwhile to seek different references that could perhaps speak to you in a different way (i.e., your volunteerism/heart/passion for the law). 

Finally, in my view, most people have a block on how high they can score on the LSAT. But I have rarely seen that block start at 151. All this is to say with enough prep and targeted study you can likely get that LSAT score higher! 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Apple

[LawstudentinCanada]

1 hour ago, luckycharm said:

Are your L2 and cGPA 3.1 per OLSAS basis?

yeah 😞

 

1 hour ago, Apple said:

You absolutely have a great opportunity to get in if you improve your LSAT. A mid 160 combined with your L2 will put you in the running for schools such as Western and Queens. Ottawa is a cGPA school so this one might be harder to get into even with a higher LSAT. You're likely out of the running from UofT, but with a stronger LSAT you do have a decent shot at Osgoode. 

If you can improve that LSAT score you should see some offers upon reapplying. Of course this all depends on the respective competitiveness of any application cycle, but surely there is reason to keep your head up. 

You wouldn't have to get new references per say, but they'll have to resubmit them. It might be worthwhile to seek different references that could perhaps speak to you in a different way (i.e., your volunteerism/heart/passion for the law). 

Finally, in my view, most people have a block on how high they can score on the LSAT. But I have rarely seen that block start at 151. All this is to say with enough prep and targeted study you can likely get that LSAT score higher! 

I dont know how to say thank you for both speaking the truth and your words of encouragement. 

Thank you so much, this def motivated me to keep pushing through. I will reapply and study really hard to do the best I can on my lsat. 

I am praying and believing I can score a mid 160!! ❤️ thanks so much again 

[luckycharm]

11 minutes ago, LawstudentinCanada said:

yeah 😞

 

I dont know how to say thank you for both speaking the truth and your words of encouragement. 

Thank you so much, this def motivated me to keep pushing through. I will reapply and study really hard to do the best I can on my lsat. 

I am praying and believing I can score a mid 160!! ❤️ thanks so much again 

hire a private tutor

apply broadly and outside Ontario too if you can.

[Renerik]

Just now, luckycharm said:

hire a private tutor

apply broadly and outside Ontario too if you can.

 Private tutors can cost a fair bit of change. I think that OP should first look at what they did the first time around and honestly answer "Where did I go wrong?".

There's a great scene in Star Trek where Picard tells Data "It is possible to make no mistakes, and still lose". If you can't justify that you made no significant mistakes leading up the 151, you know where to direct the blame. If you can honestly and earnestly justify that you did your damn best studying for the LSAT then you're either lying to yourself, or you've got a real steep mountain you'll need help climbing and might need that coach. Short of a learning disability or exceptional circumstance, I don't see why someone couldn't work their way up to a 160 through self-study. 

I get it @LawstudentinCanada, my first time writing the MCAT I barely broke the median and felt like a real chump when that first year I got straight Rs from all the schools I applied to, but I looked back at what I did to study and realized I spent too little time, not enough effort, and seriously underestimated the standardized exam. When you get that 90+ percentile score, you'll taste one of the sweetest moral nectars.

I've lost my train of thought but OP take accountability, consider whether you need help fixing your mistakes, retake the LSAT, kill it, then collect those acceptances.

[LMP]

@Renerikis absolutely correct. A score in the low 150s tells me you don't really get *how* to tackle the LSAT. 

This isn't a case of having a weak section, all of your sections are lacking. And that's OK! It's actually a good thing because it indicates, to me, that you aren't stuck, you just need to change tactics. 

Before going to a tutor why not breakdown your current study method. Myself and others would be happy to give you some feedback and help you think of solutions.

[Renerik]

I saw this as soon as I posted and thought "@LMP better not disagree with me 😠"

Edited July 8, 2021 by Renerik

[bluebean]

2 hours ago, LawstudentinCanada said:

if anyone can give any words of wisdom on whether or not a better lsat score can get me into an Ontario law school? 

As everyone said above, it absolutely will help. Compared to you, I have a lower cGPA + similar L2, but a 164 LSAT. I applied broadly and was able to get into multiple schools, as well as my top choice. If you can afford it, I'd recommend joining a prep class or getting a tutor (to keep you accountable, if that's a problem you have), especially if you feel that self-study isn't working for you. Sometimes having an outside person explain it to you just helps everything make sense.

It looks like the main thing holding you back is your LSAT - if you can get 158+, you can probably get into TRU, USask, UofC. Mid 160s can get you into UofA, Dal, Queen's...

I'd recommend reworking your PS as well. Make sure to get your friends/family to read and offer edits. I feel that schools have gotten a bit more holistic this past cycle, with solid applicants (stats-wise) being rejected, unfortunately. A great PS is more important than ever. 

Don't feel down - you're doing completely fine. With a bit more studying, I'm confident you can improve your LSAT to where you want it to be. Good luck!

[flawless1551]

When did you get waitlisted and when did you get rejected from single?

[LawstudentinCanada]

20 hours ago, Renerik said:

 Private tutors can cost a fair bit of change. I think that OP should first look at what they did the first time around and honestly answer "Where did I go wrong?".

There's a great scene in Star Trek where Picard tells Data "It is possible to make no mistakes, and still lose". If you can't justify that you made no significant mistakes leading up the 151, you know where to direct the blame. If you can honestly and earnestly justify that you did your damn best studying for the LSAT then you're either lying to yourself, or you've got a real steep mountain you'll need help climbing and might need that coach. Short of a learning disability or exceptional circumstance, I don't see why someone couldn't work their way up to a 160 through self-study. 

I get it @LawstudentinCanada, my first time writing the MCAT I barely broke the median and felt like a real chump when that first year I got straight Rs from all the schools I applied to, but I looked back at what I did to study and realized I spent too little time, not enough effort, and seriously underestimated the standardized exam. When you get that 90+ percentile score, you'll taste one of the sweetest moral nectars.

I've lost my train of thought but OP take accountability, consider whether you need help fixing your mistakes, retake the LSAT, kill it, then collect those acceptances.

Im being quite honest, my 151 was my fault. I had a lot of stuff happen (family personal) and that affected me (that's not an excuse and I get that) but I def am more than determined and keen in studying and getting myself to the score I know I can. 

 

I scored a 151 with no studying. I barely touched my lsat prep books or a test, in fact I never wrote full timed tests until the actual test day - which was in all honesty kind of stupid of me. So I agree, this is my fault and I should be more responsible and hold myself accountable to study better and get into law school! Thank you 🙂

 

18 hours ago, A_Law15 said:

When did you get waitlisted and when did you get rejected from single?

recently - I think within the last two - three weeks 

19 hours ago, samii said:

As everyone said above, it absolutely will help. Compared to you, I have a lower cGPA + similar L2, but a 164 LSAT. I applied broadly and was able to get into multiple schools, as well as my top choice. If you can afford it, I'd recommend joining a prep class or getting a tutor (to keep you accountable, if that's a problem you have), especially if you feel that self-study isn't working for you. Sometimes having an outside person explain it to you just helps everything make sense.

It looks like the main thing holding you back is your LSAT - if you can get 158+, you can probably get into TRU, USask, UofC. Mid 160s can get you into UofA, Dal, Queen's...

I'd recommend reworking your PS as well. Make sure to get your friends/family to read and offer edits. I feel that schools have gotten a bit more holistic this past cycle, with solid applicants (stats-wise) being rejected, unfortunately. A great PS is more important than ever. 

Don't feel down - you're doing completely fine. With a bit more studying, I'm confident you can improve your LSAT to where you want it to be. Good luck!

Thank you so much I appreciate that! 

 

I dont think ill be applying out of province 😞 just because I dont think I can personally afford to move out of the province (due to other reasons), and I really hope ill be able to get the score that can admit me to in province law schools. Would a safe bet be a high 150 - to mid 160s? What would you say is a good score for an in province law school with my cgpa and l2? 

And I will most def. work on my PS and get ppl to edit and read it, thanks so much for the words of support. It means a lot to me. 

 

20 hours ago, LMP said:

@Renerikis absolutely correct. A score in the low 150s tells me you don't really get *how* to tackle the LSAT. 

This isn't a case of having a weak section, all of your sections are lacking. And that's OK! It's actually a good thing because it indicates, to me, that you aren't stuck, you just need to change tactics. 

Before going to a tutor why not breakdown your current study method. Myself and others would be happy to give you some feedback and help you think of solutions.

Yes pls give me solutions on how I should be doing this!! I am currently working on LR, and I keep getting between 7-10 mistakes in this section. I dont know what I should be changing when im studying! 

 

[QueensDenning]

You can obviously improve your LSAT. Getting a 3.7+ B2 is much harder than getting a 160 IMO. What was your LSAT diagnostic score? 

Edited July 8, 2021 by QueensDenning

[bluebean]

50 minutes ago, LawstudentinCanada said:

Would a safe bet be a high 150 - to mid 160s? What would you say is a good score for an in province law school with my cgpa and l2? 

For in province, based on my own experience - 

Ry - Unpredictable. I think it comes down to whether they think you're a good fit for the school. But I think Ry also looks for a better cGPA because a great many applicants with stellar B20 + LSAT were rejected this cycle. I'd lump Windsor in here too because they're notoriously 'holistic.' This doesn't mean you have less of a chance though. 

Western, Ottawa - There's a chance if you can score in the high 160s, but it'll be difficult with a low cGPA. Probably higher chance at UOttawa than UWO.

Queen's - If you can get mid-high 160s, you'll have a really good shot. Someone was just admitted from the waitlist today with a 159 and similar L2 as yours, so I'd definitely try to aim into the mid 160s to avoid the risk, assuming each cycle gets marginally more competitive. 

IDK about UofT, Osgoode, Lakehead as I did not apply there. Perhaps someone else could comment on those. 

I think your best bet would be Queen's as they seem to be more forgiving with low cGPA splitters. (Most ON schools are cGPA based, whereas the OOP schools have more L2 options)

160+ would give you a good shot, but could go either way. 163-165 would be a competitive spot to be in. 165+ would be comfy.