Looking for new articling position

[SKlegalbeagle]

Hello all,

I participated in my province's official articling recruit, but did not end up getting an offer. Obviously stressed about this, i applied for the first articling position outside of the recruit that came up, in criminal defence. I do not want to work in criminal law (never did), but I felt very pressured into securing articles no matter where it was. Recently, a crown corp articling position came up that i would love to apply for. Thoughts on applying, and WHAT DO I DO if i get offered it? Alternatively, thoughts on transitioning out of criminal law after articling into employment law or an in-house counsel position? I'm very wlling to work hard and learn all i can at this small defence firm, but i'm concerned about transferable skills. 

 

This is all so stressful. 

[goosie]

To be clear, did you get an offer for the criminal defence job? Have you accepted it? If yes, the LSO firmly prohibits any further articling job seeking after you've accepted an articling position. I don't know about other provinces but I'm sure many have similar rules, and if nothing else, it's not a good look for the start of your legal career.

[LMP]

Try not to play games with your articling position. As has already been pointed out, it is a bad look (maybe more) to skip out on employment. And frankly I don't think this crown corp job is worth burning bridges for. 

As for transitioning to in-house, I'll let someone more experienced be the final authority but I don't know how much luck you'll have going from a small crim defense firm to an in-house role. 

Not an expert on employment firms but you'll likely get a good deal of applied advocacy at your articling job, that might be attractive to certian employment shops. Especially if they're high volume firms. I'd leverage that along with whatever networking you can do while you article. 

[Diplock]

13 hours ago, goosie said:

To be clear, did you get an offer for the criminal defence job? Have you accepted it? If yes, the LSO firmly prohibits any further articling job seeking after you've accepted an articling position. I don't know about other provinces but I'm sure many have similar rules, and if nothing else, it's not a good look for the start of your legal career.

Based on client's name, I assume they're in Saskatchewan. I don't know what their law society's rules are about this sort of thing, but I certainly agree it's a bad look regardless of the technical rules.

@OP - Look, I could give you advice from the perspective of someone who runs a smaller criminal practice. I'd tell you that the quality of articling experiences in this area vary considerably from great to not-so-great, and that a lot of it depends on the student wanting to make the most of it. You're not in a great position if you're pursuing articles in a position you don't really want and in a field you aren't really interested in. Likely your biggest challenge will be your own motivation to have a good experience doing it. And that's something to consider.

Beyond that, however, there are lessons about professionalism and adulting here that are going to apply to everything you do from now on - within your career and otherwise. You mention you felt pressured to apply to a job you don't really want. How is that relevant to anyone else you've interacted with, including the employer who gave you a job? Feeling like your own challenges are an answer to your obligations and interactions with the people around you is childish. As in, it's literally how children see the world - where everyone else has an obligation to accommodate them because that's what adults do but the child is the exception to ever taking on that responsibility. That isn't going to fly going forward in your life from now on. And people interacting with you who get the sense that is your attitude and expectation will not be impressed.

Anyway, hope that helps somewhat.

[SKlegalbeagle]

Yes, thanks all. I completely agree I am feeling quite childish about this, and 100% recognize my obligations. In no way do I want to create a bad reputation for myself. I've accepted the offer verbally, but we do not have a written/signed contract, nor any agreements on particulars yet (salary, start date, benefits, etc). Where I am, articling opportunities are hard to come by, and that's where the sense of desperation kicked in when applying for the first job that came up. I'm afraid I've pigeonholed myself in an area of law after the recruit didn't pan out, and neither did my cold-calling efforts. Very disheartening process, I was shattered to not get a call in the recruit (fully recovered from this, I'm not too sensitive to be a lawyer!)

On the note of making an effort, I absolutely will give 100% and make the best of it. I will enjoy it, it's a very interesting niche, just not the one for me. I'm lucky to be with some excellent lawyers and so I'm hoping to come out of this year with some transferable skills. I recognize that my feeling obligated to take a job is nobody's problem but mine, and is irrelevant to the firm. 

I'm just feeling really depressed at the thought of a future in a niche I am not interested in, when this new position that came up will, just by the nature of the organization, provide me with name recognition that will be attractive to other jurisdictions. Oh well.

I can sell myself well in an interview, so hopefully it is not too huge of a mountain to climb come searching for a first year associate position. I have plans to do some continuing ed/Osgoode certificate programs in the areas I'm interested in to make myself more attractive after articling. Thanks for your input, all!

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by SKlegalbeagle
add "written/signed" contract, we do have verbal agreement

[Diplock]

Just a quick note to say that just as bad attitude can be detected and people respond very negatively to it, good attitude has the opposite effect. So despite picking out a bad note or two in the OP's original post, I'm much more favorably inclined to help based on the recent reply. Kudos.

Rather than just leave this at "suck it up and make the best of it" some more information would be helpful. As in, what do you actually hope and want to do, in broad terms? If you don't have a specific answer that's fine. It's often the case. But more information is better than less, at least. If you let us know more about what's going on with you, more meaningful advice could be forthcoming.

In all events, good luck!

[LMP]

27 minutes ago, SKlegalbeagle said:

Yes, thanks all. I completely agree I am feeling quite childish about this, and 100% recognize my obligations. In no way do I want to create a bad reputation for myself. I've accepted the offer verbally, but we do not have a written/signed contract, nor any agreements on particulars yet (salary, start date, benefits, etc). Where I am, articling opportunities are hard to come by, and that's where the sense of desperation kicked in when applying for the first job that came up. I'm afraid I've pigeonholed myself in an area of law after the recruit didn't pan out, and neither did my cold-calling efforts. Very disheartening process, I was shattered to not get a call in the recruit (fully recovered from this, I'm not too sensitive to be a lawyer!)

On the note of making an effort, I absolutely will give 100% and make the best of it. I will enjoy it, it's a very interesting niche, just not the one for me. I'm lucky to be with some excellent lawyers and so I'm hoping to come out of this year with some transferable skills. I recognize that my feeling obligated to take a job is nobody's problem but mine, and is irrelevant to the firm. 

I'm just feeling really depressed at the thought of a future in a niche I am not interested in, when this new position that came up will, just by the nature of the organization, provide me with name recognition that will be attractive to other jurisdictions. Oh well.

I can sell myself well in an interview, so hopefully it is not too huge of a mountain to climb come searching for a first year associate position. I have plans to do some continuing ed/Osgoode certificate programs in the areas I'm interested in to make myself more attractive after articling. Thanks for your input, all!

 

Ah well that, to me, changes things a little. 

While honouring a verbal agreement is certianly admirable, in your position I'd still be applying broadly. I myself have been burned by these sort of verbal promises in the past, until you've signed something I wouldn't assume you have a job. 

Again, this isn't to say I distrust your would be employer, I just think as a candidate you shouldn't rely on this too much. This is even setting aside the fact that you want to work elsewhere, even if this was your dream job I'd give the same advice. 

Refine your application matierals and don't give up on your search!

[Diplock]

1 minute ago, LMP said:

Ah well that, to me, changes things a little. 

While honouring a verbal agreement is certianly admirable, in your position I'd still be applying broadly. I myself have been burned by these sort of verbal promises in the past, until you've signed something I wouldn't assume you have a job. 

Again, this isn't to say I distrust your would be employer, I just think as a candidate you shouldn't rely on this too much. This is even setting aside the fact that you want to work elsewhere, even if this was your dream job I'd give the same advice. 

Refine your application matierals and don't give up on your search!

Yeah, it really, really, really doesn't change anything. I wasn't going to pick on it because OP seemed to make the comment and move on. But what you need to realize is that the large majority of offers and agreements in this industry are often verbal. Even at major firms, never mind smaller shops.

I don't know what your personal experiences are. But any legal employer knows that making the commitment to an articling student, even informally, is a real obligation. And that obligation runs both ways.

[LMP]

2 minutes ago, Diplock said:

Yeah, it really, really, really doesn't change anything. I wasn't going to pick on it because OP seemed to make the comment and move on. But what you need to realize is that the large majority of offers and agreements in this industry are often verbal. Even at major firms, never mind smaller shops.

I don't know what your personal experiences are. But any legal employer knows that making the commitment to an articling student, even informally, is a real obligation. And that obligation runs both ways.

@SKlegalbeagle ignore my last post and read this, Diplock is far more experienced than me, especially in regards to firms like this.

I've always had firms send me something in writing pretty quickly after extending an offer, but I appreciate it is a different area of law and through a different mechanism.

My concern about verbal offers stems from non-legal jobs in the past so my advice above probably doesn't hold water.  

 

[Diplock]

2 hours ago, LMP said:

@SKlegalbeagle ignore my last post and read this, Diplock is far more experienced than me, especially in regards to firms like this.

I've always had firms send me something in writing pretty quickly after extending an offer, but I appreciate it is a different area of law and through a different mechanism.

My concern about verbal offers stems from non-legal jobs in the past so my advice above probably doesn't hold water.  

 

I suspect that lawyers are more aware of a basic rule of legal disputes than most non-legal professionals. Which is that unless it's worth litigating over, in the end, it will never really matter what's on paper anyway. So there's no need to put anything in writing, since you'd never rely on it regardless. Paradoxically, knowing the real limits of what a written contract is worth probably prompts legal professionals, myself included, to be less interested in preparing one below a certain level.

 

[123]

3 hours ago, SKlegalbeagle said:

On the note of making an effort, I absolutely will give 100% and make the best of it. I will enjoy it, it's a very interesting niche, just not the one for me. I'm lucky to be with some excellent lawyers and so I'm hoping to come out of this year with some transferable skills.

As @Diplock says, it's hard to say without knowing more about your plans. In terms of litigation, most crim articles have some transferability. If nothing else, crim students get on their feet more than a lot of other students. Even if only for set-date court, making submissions to a court or tribunal is valuable experience when you're junior. I assume you'll also pick up some client and practice management skills in the course of articling with any retail lawyer, and spend time doing research and reviewing disclosure. You might not learn anything about the relevant procedures or substantive law for your eventual practice area. But you'll pick up some foundational skills that work for other kinds of litigation.

[JustHereNotStaying]

As a side note, I would definitely look into your pay... small crim defence pays very little and expects you to have a vehicle as well as drive around different cities (you have to pay for gas, parking and repairs as well sometimes!). So you have to factor in your salary and how it costs you in terms of gas and repairs. You should really iron out those details and get them written out - I've heard horror stories where articling students are told one thing (e.g., pay for bar fees, bonuses etc), but that never actually happens. You should try to get your employment contract written out or ask for something in terms of what you get to expect (as with any job). 

 

and @Diplock is right in terms of what a written contract is actually worth. I recommend getting something written to ensure both sides' expectations are known. If you choose to leave the articling position, you would have to leave before applying as per the LSO's rules as stated in the forum.