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Not Selected for Interview (Clinical Programs)


Propertylawnotmything

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Propertylawnotmything
  • Law Student

Welp that was quick. I checked my clinical applications just now and saw "not selected for interview" under one of the applications I submitted 3 days ago.

Where can I go get some feedbacks on my application? I am MAD MAD that I did not apply to more clinics (I did 4, stoopid me).  

I have a C+ for one of my 1L courses 😞 that must be it

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LMP
  • Law Student

Which did you apply to? There are some that are harder to get, I always advise people to apply broadly. 

But don't stress it, if you want you can still do a clinic in your third year. Or not at all. Lots of people end up doing one of the two. It isn't really a dealbreaker for anything. 

 

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Propertylawnotmything
  • Law Student
2 minutes ago, LMP said:

Which did you apply to? There are some that are harder to get, I always advise people to apply broadly. 

But don't stress it, if you want you can still do a clinic in your third year. Or not at all. Lots of people end up doing one of the two. It isn't really a dealbreaker for anything. 

 

CLASP. I am guessing this is one of the harder to get in ones.

Edited by Propertylawnotmything
Quoted twice by accident
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LMP
  • Law Student

I think they take a lot of the folks who had already worked there in 1L. But I'm not really privy into their selection process. 

Again, try not to worry so much. I know every milestone in 1L seems super important, but by this time next year you won't even be thinking about it. Lots of other oppertunites are going to come up over the next few months and you'll have no shortage of applications to prepare.

I'm happy to go over your matierals with, though at the end of the day even a really strong application can still fall through the gaps and you may not have done anything wrong at all! 

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Turtles
  • Law Student
2 hours ago, Propertylawnotmything said:

Welp that was quick. I checked my clinical applications just now and saw "not selected for interview" under one of the applications I submitted 3 days ago.

Where can I go get some feedbacks on my application? I am MAD MAD that I did not apply to more clinics (I did 4, stoopid me).  

I have a C+ for one of my 1L courses 😞 that must be it

Based on some of the CLASP horror stories I've heard, you may come to relish the rejection.

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where did you see the "not selected for interview"? did all the clinics send out interview invitations already?

10 hours ago, Turtles said:

Based on some of the CLASP horror stories I've heard, you may come to relish the rejection.

im curious, what are the horror stories?

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Propertylawnotmything
  • Law Student
15 hours ago, Turtles said:

Based on some of the CLASP horror stories I've heard, you may come to relish the rejection.

I heard the workload is bad bad.

 

5 hours ago, citycat said:

where did you see the "not selected for interview"? did all the clinics send out interview invitations already?

im curious, what are the horror stories?

Go to the drop down menu under Clinical Programs > Applications - "Not Selected for Interview" will show under Application Status.  

image.png

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Turtles
  • Law Student
12 hours ago, citycat said:

where did you see the "not selected for interview"? did all the clinics send out interview invitations already?

im curious, what are the horror stories?

Heavy caseload, poor instruction / bad attitude / not enough support from supervising counsel, difficult clients, etc. That said, CLASP is usually a better experience than Parkdale where the same issues may be significantly amplified.  

(Yes, they may give a taste of real practice, but at least in real practice you're getting paid -- not paying tuition for the opportunity).

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ccounsel2024
  • Law Student

Does anyone have any experience with the Investor Protection Clinic? Invites just came out, it's 9 credits and I'm wondering if it's any good/worth it. I actually really enjoy exam-based courses so I'm debating if I should stick with courses or do a clinic 

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Turtles
  • Law Student
1 hour ago, ccounsel2024 said:

Does anyone have any experience with the Investor Protection Clinic? Invites just came out, it's 9 credits and I'm wondering if it's any good/worth it. I actually really enjoy exam-based courses so I'm debating if I should stick with courses or do a clinic 

The prof who leads it is very well-regarded in the industry but I have heard many, many complaints from people who have taken it (especially in the past year). You can DM me.

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QueensDenning
  • Articling Student

I would still advise people to do Clinic work, notwithstanding the downsides. Especially if the clinic is known for having a heavy caseload with difficult clients and poor or little supervision. Absolute interview gold if you can spin it the right way. You also learn a lot more in those circumstances than you do in any class.

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soundofconfusion
  • Law Student
2 hours ago, QueensDenning said:

I would still advise people to do Clinic work, notwithstanding the downsides. Especially if the clinic is known for having a heavy caseload with difficult clients and poor or little supervision. Absolute interview gold if you can spin it the right way. You also learn a lot more in those circumstances than you do in any class.

Could you expand on that a bit and talk about how to deal with those downsides? I'd be very nervous that I was fucking people's lives up through my own incompetence if I was acting without proper supervision or training and that's the one thing that's turning me off pursuing a clinic like that. I want to learn how to be a good litigator and to get a job, but I also don't want to fuck a bunch of already fucked-over people over further in the process.

Edited by soundofconfusion
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I don't think it's beneficial to have poor supervision in a clinical setting, and would not advise students to pursue an opportunity where they know in advance that the supervision is poor. I learned the most from good supervisors. In hindsight, I might have made the best of bad situations where the supervision was poor. But I never tried to "spin" those in interviews and I'm not really sure what that would sound like.

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3 hours ago, realpseudonym said:

I don't think it's beneficial to have poor supervision in a clinical setting, and would not advise students to pursue an opportunity where they know in advance that the supervision is poor. I learned the most from good supervisors. In hindsight, I might have made the best of bad situations where the supervision was poor. But I never tried to "spin" those in interviews and I'm not really sure what that would sound like.

Just adding a follow-up for clarification since someone PM'd me with concerns about supervision at a particular clinic. As far as I know, established clinics at Canadian schools have adequate supervision. I don't think that it's going to be a live concern all that often.

My point was that (i) poor supervision strikes me as an odd selling point for any clinic and (ii) that it could be hard to frame work done without supervision to your advantage. If an interviewee tells me that they managed to resolve legal issues or cases without adequate supervision, that is impressive, insofar as it demonstrates some independence and aptitude. But one of my biggest concerns with any student would be them doing work at my firm without my supervision. I'm liable for all their work. And I want someone who has an ironclad understanding that they cannot give legal advice, and that if they are at any point out of their depth or understanding, they must immediately come to me rather than taking action on their own. An interview answer where a student talks about clinical work done without adequate supervision would set-off alarm bells. If I believe that they were inadequately supervised, it might say that the student failed to set boundaries. If it's a clinic I know and trust, I might not believe that they were inadequately supervised and wouldn't relish the chance to hire a student prone to subtly trashing past supervisors.

In any case, I don't think that many students need to worry that they aren't being supervised in established clinical settings. But if you find yourself in that position, I'm not sure handling a heavy caseload without adequate supervision as an unlicensed, uninsured student will be much of a selling point in job interviews.

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QueensDenning
  • Articling Student
On 2/6/2023 at 12:51 PM, soundofconfusion said:

Could you expand on that a bit and talk about how to deal with those downsides? I'd be very nervous that I was fucking people's lives up through my own incompetence if I was acting without proper supervision or training and that's the one thing that's turning me off pursuing a clinic like that. I want to learn how to be a good litigator and to get a job, but I also don't want to fuck a bunch of already fucked-over people over further in the process.

Sorry I didn't mean for my comment to be taken so literally (especially the part about how a lock of supervision could be a good thing). In terms of how to talk about the downsides, I was more referring to how a lack of supervision/guidance forces students to be resourceful, seeking out answers to the questions they may have, showing your able to work independently in a new area of law, etc. In terms of the heavy workload and difficult clients, obviously these are topics that come up a lot in interview ("tell me a time when..."). 

Re: your concern about fucking people's lives up - I don't really see that as a possibility. As a student in a clinical setting, all legal work must be approved by a supervising lawyer before its sent to a client. That's rule #1, 2 and 3 at every clinic I've been a part of. If a clinic is under resourced, I see it as a positive to be able to get some work done, with or without supervision. The work you do might end up being wrong or useless - but that would get caught by the supervising lawyer prior to it being sent to the client. I'd be incredibly surprised if any clinic run by a Canadian law school would allow work to be sent out by a student directly to a client without it having been reviewed by a licensed supervisor. So, when people are referring to a lack of supervision, I think it's more a lack of guidance while completing the work, and maybe a slow turnaround in terms of when work is submitted vs. when it's reviewed. These things might have a negative impact on clients, but at the end of the day legal clinics do the best they can with the resources they have.

Full disclosure, I've never been a part of a clinic that required any sort of court time. 

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  • 11 months later...
Propertylawnotmything
  • Law Student

reviving this in 2024, anyone heard anything from ADIP or OBC? 

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SNAILS
  • Law Student

For those who did not get into a clinic, don't feel too bad. You may feel a bit, or a lot, of FEMO (fear of missing out), but I honestly don't think you're missing anything if you graduate law school without ever having taken a clinic, especially if its  random clinic you "applied broadly" for just for the sake of having taken a clinic.

For context, I'm a 3L in a clinic. I love my clinic, but only because it's very specialized for my area of interest (I would be kicking myself now if I was in some of my "second choice" clinics outside of my area of interest). Part of the reason I say that is there are also certain courses that I will not be able to take because I am done this year, whereas without the clinic, I would be able to take those courses.

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eggfanclub
  • Applicant
On 2/1/2024 at 7:49 PM, Propertylawnotmything said:

reviving this in 2024, anyone heard anything from ADIP or OBC? 

heard from ADIP on monday, barbra schlifer on thursday. has anyone heard anything from parkdale? 

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Turtles
  • Law Student
On 2/1/2024 at 7:49 PM, Propertylawnotmything said:

reviving this in 2024, anyone heard anything from ADIP or OBC? 

My experience getting into OBC in two different years (declined their offer the first year) was that it just shows up as an offer when clinic offers are first released (check the clinic recruitment manual for the anticipated date, pretty sure it was in reading week). There was no interview or contact before offer release, so it's a solid month of silence.

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Propertylawnotmything
  • Law Student
25 minutes ago, Turtles said:

My experience getting into OBC in two different years (declined their offer the first year) was that it just shows up as an offer when clinic offers are first released (check the clinic recruitment manual for the anticipated date, pretty sure it was in reading week). There was no interview or contact before offer release, so it's a solid month of silence.

Amazing, thank you!!

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Dinglebob
  • Law Student

If I didn’t get any updates for IPC, does this mean I didn’t get it?

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legalvibes
  • Applicant

My applications still say "application submitted" with no updates/emails. Many people have gotten email invites for interviews and email rejections and "not selected for interview" on the experience York portal. Does this mean my application hasn't been assessed yet or do I assume because lots of people have gotten interviews and if I haven't heard yet that means I did not get one.

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Turtles
  • Law Student
20 hours ago, Dinglebob said:

If I didn’t get any updates for IPC, does this mean I didn’t get it?

In my year, IPC sent interview requests on January 31 for interviews the following Saturday and Sunday mornings. They then made offers out of the interviewees they liked. To replace people who reject the first round offer, they (presumably) pull from interviewees they didn't like as much to make second round offers, though notionally they may dip into the people who never interviewed if the interviewed-but-not-selected people were of really poor quality somehow. 

If others got IPC interview invites and you didn't, I wouldn't hold my breath. You didn't make some kind of cutoff (grades / experience / interest / ability to write coherent cover letter) and they will only look at you again if they're desperate. (I have no clue if interviews went out this year.)

That said, there's tons of material in the gossip mill about really painful IPC experiences, so you may consider it a blessing in disguise 😉 

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Shaheer
  • Law Student

Interviews for CLASP and IPC are out. IPC had interviews yesterday Sunday. CLASP is interviewing candidates this week till next Monday.

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0vie
  • Law Student
On 2/5/2024 at 3:19 PM, Shaheer said:

Interviews for CLASP and IPC are out. IPC had interviews yesterday Sunday. CLASP is interviewing candidates this week till next Monday.

Pardon my ignorance, but is IPC the "Intensive Program in Criminal Law"?

On a sidenote, has anyone heard from the IP Intensive? I don't recall if they do interviews or not.

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