Mcgill vs UBC

[ProudCrocodile]

Seeing many put these two together with UofT as the top3, perhaps adding Oz as the top4 (no intention to argue for ranking them).

In the light of their respective career prospects (articling, biglaw rates etc) and financial pressure, if the student in question is fluent in French and has actually no preference over working in the east or the west, which is a better choice?

 

[Telephantasm]

13 minutes ago, Licn said:

Seeing many put these two together with UofT as the top3, perhaps adding Oz as the top4 (no intention to argue for ranking them).

In the light of their respective career prospects (articling, biglaw rates etc) and financial pressure, if the student in question is fluent in French and has actually no preference over working in the east or the west, which is a better choice?

 

I went to neither, so take this with a grain of salt, but I got into both schools and am from BC/went to UBC for undergrad, and McGill was my clear top choice between the two. I had a couple reasons. First, McGill's costs are much lower. Tuition is a few grand cheaper each year and cost of living is way cheaper. Not to mention that UBC has a horrible track record on financial aid. Second, McGill grad prospects appear more diverse. McGill routinely dominates clerkship opportunities. McGill grads frequently practise in Europe, New York and Eastern Canada, and I'd imagine that your Western Canadian prospects would be fine out of McGill as well. UBC has fine job prospects, don't get me wrong, but McGill seems a touch ahead in that respect.

[Goblin King]

I'd go to McGill In this situation, but as I'll explain later, that probably offers no bearing on where you should go. It offers training in both of our law systems and is cheaper (especially if you're a Quebec resident). These are two things that I personally value, but YMMV. I think on average career prospects are equal for these schools in their respective markets with the majority UBC grads working out west and the majority McGill grads working out east (especially in Ontario). UBC might have the advantage of being the "best" school in western Canada, whereas McGill competes with UofT and Oz in Ontario, but I think this competitive advantage is negligible. They both have great national mobility, but I don't have the information to tell you which one opens more doors nationally. I suspect there isn't much difference, but that McGill has better brand recognition. 

Frankly if you're just considering these schools' career prospects under the conditions you've described, you should decide which school to go to by flipping a coin. I'd put more thought into which school is the better "fit" for you. It really comes down to what you value in a school, what courses/clinics you're most interested in, where you want to live for three years, where you want to practice, etc. I think those things are more important to figure out than worrying about the relative prestige of two excellent schools. For example, I chose Dal over Oz because of sticker shock, some nice scholarships, national mobility, collegiality, and close proximity to the ocean. 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Goblin King

[Avatar Aang]

If you are interested in working for the federal government, I would go to McGill as you can sell the bilingualism. If you want to work in Eastern Canada, I would go to McGill. I would go to UBC if you want to work out West. If you want to work in NYC or Toronto Biglaw, go to McGill. If you want to work in Biglaw in Western Canada, go to UBC. 

You should figure out where you want to work. Not much is going to change in your circumstances in the next three years for you to leave this crucial question hanging.

[Psychometronic]

I went to UBC and I don’t see any advantage UBC has over McGill unless you have a strong preference for living and working out west (and you don’t mind a slightly longer education). 

[jcfm]

On 7/12/2021 at 3:29 PM, Psychometronic said:

I went to UBC and I don’t see any advantage UBC has over McGill unless you have a strong preference for living and working out west (and you don’t mind a slightly longer education). 

Why is UBC slightly longer?

[Telephantasm]

23 minutes ago, jcfm said:

Why is UBC slightly longer?

UBC isn't... McGill is. I think Psych got that part backwards.

[Psychometronic]

2 hours ago, jcfm said:

Why is UBC slightly longer?

My bad. I meant to say McGill is longer.

[SYANG09]

Give that French is your advantage and you're more likely to practice where you study law, then Mcgill hands down. Much fewer positions require bilinguals in the west. 

Edited July 24, 2021 by SYANG09

[luckycharm]

On 7/12/2021 at 10:02 AM, Licn said:

Seeing many put these two together with UofT as the top3, perhaps adding Oz as the top4 (no intention to argue for ranking them).

In the light of their respective career prospects (articling, biglaw rates etc) and financial pressure, if the student in question is fluent in French and has actually no preference over working in the east or the west, which is a better choice?

 

You can wait till you receive an offer from McGill and other school first.

You said in your previous post that you are an international student and have 171 and 3.75/4.0.

Is your 3.75/4.0 per OLSAS or WES?

 

[ProudCrocodile]

13 hours ago, luckycharm said:

Is your 3.75/4.0 per OLSAS or WES?

That's per my academic transcript issued by my school. We have only letter grades with A(the best possible grade) being 4.0, A- 3.7 and B+ 3.3. So I assumed that my cGPA would not change much after WES or the OLSAS evaluation.

[luckycharm]

12 hours ago, Licn said:

That's per my academic transcript issued by my school. We have only letter grades with A(the best possible grade) being 4.0, A- 3.7 and B+ 3.3. So I assumed that my cGPA would not change much after WES or the OLSAS evaluation.

"So I assumed " Hard to tell.

[PzabbytheLawyer]

I'm probably too late to the game here, but as a McGill alumnus, I can confirm it opens the doors people talk about. You have to work very hard to get to Europe but it's doable. NY same thing. I haven't had any friends wanting to go out west have trouble. The caveat is if you're not from out west. Proving to employers you want to be in BC after having no connection to it is difficult (I've tried).

[123]

Did pzabbythesecond level up into @PzabbytheLawyer?

[efrefgg]

1 hour ago, realpseudonym said:

Did pzabbythesecond level up into @PzabbytheLawyer?

I woulda thought he'd become Pzabbytheminute or pzabbythehour.

[PzabbytheLawyer]

1 hour ago, realpseudonym said:

Did pzabbythesecond level up into @PzabbytheLawyer?

I might be a lawyer now. But I still feel like a charmander every single day. That's the life of a first year call in a new field to one they've worked in (sort of).

[GreyDude]

15 hours ago, PzabbytheLawyer said:

I might be a lawyer now. But I still feel like a charmander every single day. That's the life of a first year call in a new field to one they've worked in (sort of).

Nice to have you around again, whether producing large flames or small. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by GreyDude

[TheDevilIKnow]

On 7/12/2021 at 9:08 AM, Avatar Aang said:

If you are interested in working for the federal government, I would go to McGill as you can sell the bilingualism.

Very very minor note, but: this will only matter in locations with bilingual work requirements (so, Quebec or Ottawa). I tried selling my bilingualism to the Feds out west, as a "nice to have", and it just isn't a factor. Amazing asset in the locations where it's actually needed, however.

[PzabbytheLawyer]

16 hours ago, TheDevilIKnow said:

Very very minor note, but: this will only matter in locations with bilingual work requirements (so, Quebec or Ottawa). I tried selling my bilingualism to the Feds out west, as a "nice to have", and it just isn't a factor. Amazing asset in the locations where it's actually needed, however.

Bilingualism in Quebec is almost a given because well, they're mostly perfectly bilingual. More so than most Anglos who speak French.

Ottawa, yes. It's come in handy in Toronto too, but it depends on your line of work.

[TheDevilIKnow]

7 hours ago, PzabbytheLawyer said:

It's come in handy in Toronto too, but it depends on your line of work.

Of course. But to be clear, I was specifically referring to hiring by the DOJ. Since the process is quite rigid, a position is either bilingual or not. Outside of QC and Ottawa, I would be surprised if any DOJ position is actually designated as bilingual.

[PzabbytheLawyer]

6 hours ago, TheDevilIKnow said:

Of course. But to be clear, I was specifically referring to hiring by the DOJ. Since the process is quite rigid, a position is either bilingual or not. Outside of QC and Ottawa, I would be surprised if any DOJ position is actually designated as bilingual.

Sure, yes.

[Andalusian2400]

On 11/22/2021 at 5:42 PM, PzabbytheLawyer said:

I'm probably too late to the game here, but as a McGill alumnus, I can confirm it opens the doors people talk about. You have to work very hard to get to Europe but it's doable. NY same thing. I haven't had any friends wanting to go out west have trouble. The caveat is if you're not from out west. Proving to employers you want to be in BC after having no connection to it is difficult (I've tried).

Where in Europe are you talking? London magic circle and Paris biglaw?

[PzabbytheLawyer]

8 hours ago, Andalusian2400 said:

Where in Europe are you talking? London magic circle and Paris biglaw?

Paris big law certainly. London magic circle I'm not sure about but I suspect yes too.

NY big law is much simpler than both though. It really shocks me to this day what kind of GPA at McGill can get you to NY. You still need to be excellent, in a lot of ways, but deans list is certainly not a cut off to getting to NY (though it is for certain firms there).

[tiktok]

On 1/2/2022 at 9:41 PM, PzabbytheLawyer said:

Paris big law certainly. London magic circle I'm not sure about but I suspect yes too.

NY big law is much simpler than both though. It really shocks me to this day what kind of GPA at McGill can get you to NY. You still need to be excellent, in a lot of ways, but deans list is certainly not a cut off to getting to NY (though it is for certain firms there).

Do you think a student in the top 50 % has a chance at NY biglaw? 

[PzabbytheLawyer]

55 minutes ago, tiktok said:

Do you think a student in the top 50 % has a chance at NY biglaw? 

Yes. I definitely know some there now with those grades. You shouldn't bank on it though. They're the exceptions not the rule. 

But, it seems generally you're far safer being at least top 30 percent, or with a 3.15-3.2 ish after your second year (which for McGill, is the summer you interview on the regular 3.5 year timeline).

A 3.2 at McGill after your 2L is very possible to pull off if you do like most, and write term papers and take non law courses to pad your 2L.

If you were a schmuck like me and not do that, you'll still be fine. But you'll be worse off than if you'd just followed the majority.