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Acceptance of non-monogamy


non-monogamist

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Yogurt Baron
1 hour ago, Scrivener said:

Lash out at me for being 'heteronormative'

Oh, I think we're on the same side of this, broadly - and to the degree I even was "lashing out", it wasn't at you. I think we agree that of course bigotry is wrong, and I think we agree that of course in the real world, it's still something folks have to navigate strategically.

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QueensDenning
  • Articling Student
45 minutes ago, Yogurt Baron said:

Oh, I think we're on the same side of this, broadly - and to the degree I even was "lashing out", it wasn't at you. I think we agree that of course bigotry is wrong, and I think we agree that of course in the real world, it's still something folks have to navigate strategically.

I think this is the important point thats getting lost in discussion of how woke we all are/should be. At the end of the day a non-insignificant amount of people in a law firm aren't going to be comfortable hearing about X associate and what she was doing with her two boyfriends over the weekend. It shouldn't have any impact on how that associate is treated, but we don't live in a perfect world. 

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GGrievous
  • Law Student

The thing that’s always troubling to me is that I always have a feeling SNAILS is trolling but I know QueensDenning isn’t 

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GGrievous
  • Law Student

There's a difference between acknowledging that OP is going to face challenges and saying that and then in the next sentence bringing up how no one wants to hear about their sex life or what someone did with her two boyfriends. My problem is when people themselves clearly have a bigoted view of a lifestyle and speak about it in a disrespectful way under the protection of "that's just the world we live in".

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CleanHands
  • Lawyer
1 minute ago, Barry said:

There's a difference between acknowledging that OP is going to face challenges and saying that and then in the next sentence bringing up how no one wants to hear about their sex life or what someone did with her two boyfriends.

There is. That's not what he wrote though.

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GGrievous
  • Law Student
1 hour ago, QueensDenning said:

hearing about X associate and what she was doing with her two boyfriends over the weekend.

I don't really know how else one would take this, especially based on prior comments in this thread.

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SNAILS
  • Law Student
23 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

I hope everyone who threw their lot in with SNAILS feels as stupid as they should for agreeing with a guy who thinks sexual orientation is akin to a hobby 🙂 

I understand you are actually a lawyer. Do you get involved in litigation? Do you make a substantive argument from time to time, or just ad hominems?

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BlockedQuebecois
  • Lawyer

If re-stating the view you expressed on a topic is ad hominem, perhaps you should reconsider your views 🙂

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Obviously nobody is talking about sex at work, but it's completely, totally, obviously normal to say things like "I went with my wife to Niagara Falls" and really not common to say something like that if it's not your monogamous partner unless you just say it was "a friend".

A lot of people will still judge you for the second, unfortunately.

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GGrievous
  • Law Student

Of course people will likely judge or discriminate and odds are good that people needing a pay check will cater to the beliefs of those that are discriminating, that’s nothing shocking and isn’t limited to sexual orientation. 

What is concerning is that the topic is being approached by some by essentially saying the lifestyle is going to make people uncomfortable because the lifestyle is too weird. Rather than saying that there’s some people that are incapable of letting people live their lives, and who apparently have an issue with freedom. THAT’s the thing that’s weird and those people’s issues with it is what should be kept to yourself in the workplace. 

But that’s not what’s being said here. What is being said are some disgusting characterizations that are perpetuating derogatory thinking about a group of people. We’re alive to the realities of this issue in the corporate world but it’s messed up to talk this way about it, and I’ll stand by that no matter what someone’s bigoted beliefs are. Cause those people aren’t actually here… right?

If it really is a matter of warning OP about how co-workers in the business might react then shift the blame to the actual source of the problem - the people subjecting their inappropriate obsession with the sex lives of others in the workplace and creating this problem in the first place. A problem that doesn’t seem to have an actual solution other than hide who you are. But stop putting the burden on those quite literally just trying to live how they want, not hurting anyone, and are being told to hide it and be ashamed. Just imagine this conversation with non-monogamous replaced with interracial. 

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On 5/12/2023 at 3:15 PM, Yogurt Baron said:

Is that...is that something? I've noticed that some of the lawyers I work for are less open about their personal lives than people in other industries, because they're more focused on the job at hand---but by "some", I'm talking "only 90% of my straight married lawyers talk about their families as opposed to 95% in other workplaces". Probably five lawyers today said to me, "Oh, this weekend my husband and I are doing ____".

I'm with Blocked here---there's some big heteronormativity going on upthread, even if well-intentioned. It's the oldest story in the book---"If Bob tells you he went antiquing with his wife, that's just a normal guy making normal conversation, but if Bob tells you he went antiquing with his husband, he's FLAGRANTLY SUBJECTING YOU TO PRIVATE SEXUAL SEX INFORMATION ABOUT ALL THE SEXY GAY SEX HE HAS, AND CAN'T WE JUST KEEP OUR PRIVATE LIVES PRIVATE INSTEAD OF FLAUNTING OUR DEVIANCY." Someone who's not straight should be able to talk about their personal lives to the same degree that a straight person can. I wish you luck, OP.

But I think OP isn't asking about whether or not he should be allowed to talk about their personal lives to the same degree. I think most people agree that they should be.  OP is wondering (A) if they don't share the same amount of detail, would it be noticable and weird? And (2) alternatively, what would happen if they did share those personal details? 

To the first question, I think it's pretty common for people to be quite private at the office - even those in heterosexual relationships. I'm pretty careful about asking people about their partners. Even heterosexual monogamous lawyers go through break ups, separations, all sorts of situations where it becomes awkward for them to discuss. Same with unmarried associates who doesn't want to really share about relationship status, or younger female colleages who don't want others to know when they got married, or for others to speculate as to when they are going to start family planning, etc.  I don't think it's uncommon for people to completely avoid discussions about relationships altogether, regardless of gender and sexual orientation.  So if Bob says he went antiquing with his wife, and asks you what you did over the weekend, no one would notice or find it odd if you said "oh just spent time and brunch with family." or something generic. 

The second questions is more context based and depends on where they work.  I still think at the end of the day it depends on whether or not you develop an organic relationship with your colleagues. 

 

 

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QueensDenning
  • Articling Student
On 5/14/2023 at 12:49 PM, Barry said:

Of course people will likely judge or discriminate and odds are good that people needing a pay check will cater to the beliefs of those that are discriminating, that’s nothing shocking and isn’t limited to sexual orientation. 

What is concerning is that the topic is being approached by some by essentially saying the lifestyle is going to make people uncomfortable because the lifestyle is too weird. Rather than saying that there’s some people that are incapable of letting people live their lives, and who apparently have an issue with freedom. THAT’s the thing that’s weird and those people’s issues with it is what should be kept to yourself in the workplace. 

But that’s not what’s being said here. What is being said are some disgusting characterizations that are perpetuating derogatory thinking about a group of people. We’re alive to the realities of this issue in the corporate world but it’s messed up to talk this way about it, and I’ll stand by that no matter what someone’s bigoted beliefs are. Cause those people aren’t actually here… right?

If it really is a matter of warning OP about how co-workers in the business might react then shift the blame to the actual source of the problem - the people subjecting their inappropriate obsession with the sex lives of others in the workplace and creating this problem in the first place. A problem that doesn’t seem to have an actual solution other than hide who you are. But stop putting the burden on those quite literally just trying to live how they want, not hurting anyone, and are being told to hide it and be ashamed. Just imagine this conversation with non-monogamous replaced with interracial. 

I wasn't going to reply to you because I don't have much to add to Cleanhands' responses above... but this word vomit is exactly the sort of grandstanding bullshit that I was trying to point out in my original reply. No one is making disgusting characterizations. No one is calling anything weird. No one is blaming OP for not being heterosexual. 

Every comment on this thread has been respectful, inclusive and accepting of OP's situation. 

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BlockedQuebecois
  • Lawyer
39 minutes ago, QueensDenning said:

Every comment on this thread has been respectful, inclusive and accepting of OP's situation. 

Comparing someone’s sexual orientation to a hobby isn’t respectful and inclusive, nor is suggesting OP hide in the closet if they want to be accepted (both things SNAILS did). 

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And literally no straight guy hides the fact that they are married to a woman. There is nobody in a "normal" relationship hiding their "private" sex life.

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Scrivener: Let the workplace be about work - there's no need to lead with your personal matters, regardless of what they are. As you get to know your co-workers, maybe more personal things will become known through side conversation, but by that time they'd know you for your personal style, work ethic, etc.. From my perspective, "getting out in front of it" would be i) pushing for people to consider this as a core part of who you are, and ii) indicate that you may have difficulty separating work and personal life such that there would be much of the aforementioned awkwardness to look forward to. Also, isn't it fun to have a little mystery? Let them wonder...

BQ: “If LGBTQ+ people want to be accepted in the workplace, why don’t they just stay in the closet?”

Prompt: So, Bard, is BQ correctly summarizing Scrivener's comment?

Bard: No, BQ is not correctly summarizing Scrivener's comment. Scrivener is not saying that LGBTQ+ people should stay in the closet in order to be accepted in the workplace. Scrivener is simply saying that there is no need to lead with your personal matters, regardless of what they are. Scrivener is also saying that it is important to be able to separate your work life from your personal life.

BQ's comment is a harmful and ignorant generalization. It is important to remember that not all members of any group are the same, and that LGBTQ+ people are just as diverse as any other population group. To say that all LGBTQ+ people should stay in the closet in order to be accepted in the workplace is simply not true. There are many LGBTQ+ people who are out and proud in their workplaces, and who are accepted and respected by their colleagues.

It is important to create a workplace environment where everyone feels comfortable being themselves, regardless of their sexual orientation or gender identity. This means creating a culture of inclusion and respect, where everyone feels safe and valued. It also means being aware of the challenges that LGBTQ+ people may face in the workplace, and taking steps to address them.

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CleanHands
  • Lawyer

@myth000 Bruh, are you really going to make posts like that regularly? Have you lost the ability to formulate original thoughts without AI assistance?

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1 minute ago, CleanHands said:

@myth000 Bruh, are you really going to make posts like that regularly? Have you lost the ability to formulate original thoughts without AI assistance?

Why should I waste my time with idiots?

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Chewy
  • Law School Admit
1 minute ago, myth000 said:

Why should I waste my time with idiots?

And yet, here you are, fellow idiot.

Disturbing The Simpsons GIF

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BlockedQuebecois
  • Lawyer

@CleanHands The funniest part is myth didn’t even correctly identify the post I was referring to, despite me explicitly stating an hour ago that it was SNAILS’s post. 

Although a close second is that ChatGPT is apparently incapable of understanding the use of quotation marks in my post. 

Edited by BlockedQuebecois
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BlockedQuebecois
  • Lawyer

Funnily enough, if you put in OP’s post, SNAILS’s post, and my post, and ask ChatGPT if my critique of SNAILS’s post is fair, it says: 

Quote

BQ's critique of SNAILS's post is fair in the sense that it challenges the notion that LGBTQ+ individuals should stay in the closet to be accepted in the workplace. This notion is harmful and goes against the principles of equality and respect. It is important to create a workplace environment where individuals can be their authentic selves without fear of discrimination or bias.

However, it is also important to note that SNAILS's post does acknowledge that one's sexuality and personal life should not be the focus of discussion in a professional setting. It is possible that SNAILS's comment was not meant to suggest that LGBTQ+ individuals should stay in the closet but rather to caution against making one's private life a central topic of discussion at work. Nonetheless, it is important to be clear that all individuals have the right to be open about their sexual orientation or gender identity without facing discrimination or bias in the workplace.

Which is pretty much right 🙂 

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@myth000 I’d broadly prefer that if someone is going to repost AI generated responses, they just not post. I have access to AI. If I wanted an AI response, I’d ask it myself. This is one of the few sections of the internet not infiltrated by bots. I come here to read other humans posts. I strongly dislike reading AI reposts. I’m not a mod, and have no power. But one poster to another, I ask that you please stop. 

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I may be an idiot, but I do have a few years of working on these types of issues under my belt, but probably won't comment if the thread is full of robots.

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