Working from home policies

[groovy1363]

Did your firms (any size) give you any updates on what the working from home policy will be whenever this pandemic ends? I'd be curious to know which firms will be more flexible.

[KOMODO]

Ours is still trying to figure it out, but if I had to guess I would say it's likely to be something like "associates required to be in person X days per week/month; if an associate is not in office at least Y days per week they don't get a permanent office and instead participate in hotelling". But that's just a guess.

I have heard about one firm that is apparently going to require associates to be in the office 4 days a week, which I found very surprising because that's not the vibe I get from my firm.

Interesting/related, I have heard rumblings that my firm is changing their meeting protocols - it sounds like you're going to have the option to voluntarily disclose your vaccine status (show your second receipt over zoom 14+ days after your second dose; firm keeps no copy of your health records), or you'll be required to take a rapid covid test before the meeting you're trying to attend. Sounds like masks will then be optional in meetings although people will still be 6 feet apart.

[Jaggers]

We already went from individual offices to shared space, so that's not a return issue for us. But we were told this week that we'll be expected in the office 65-70% of the time post-pandemic. So I guess 3-4 days a week, though I don't really foresee anyone babysitting people on this.

We're working on how we'll deal with masks and distancing right now, which is made tricky by the fact that each province and even each city has their own rules right now. We don't really want to be in the position of distinguishing based on vaccination status, or policing people about that, so we'll probably just wait for more in person meetings until the restrictions are more relaxed.

[Pantalaimon]

Same deal here, associates & assistants are expected to be in the office 3-4 days a week, students 4 days a week. Starting in September.

It's unlikely you'll get specific firm names in this forum.

[KOMODO]

1 hour ago, Pantalaimon said:

Same deal here, associates & assistants are expected to be in the office 3-4 days a week, students 4 days a week. Starting in September.

It's unlikely you'll get specific firm names in this forum.

Whoa Sept. seems so soon. My firm hasn't announced their policy yet but I didn't get the sense they would REQUIRE anyone to be in person before January.

[PePeHalpert]

2-3 days per week in the office unless your job function requires full time attendance.  Office opening is TBD but likely to be sometime in the fall if trends continue. 

[Pantalaimon]

35 minutes ago, KOMODO said:

Whoa Sept. seems so soon. My firm hasn't announced their policy yet but I didn't get the sense they would REQUIRE anyone to be in person before January.

I should mention that I'm in Calgary, which lifted all public health restrictions on July 1st and seems to have adopted a strategy of willing the pandemic out of existence. My firm has offices in Toronto and I would be surprised if their schedule is in lockstep with ours.

[Jaggers]

1 hour ago, KOMODO said:

Whoa Sept. seems so soon. My firm hasn't announced their policy yet but I didn't get the sense they would REQUIRE anyone to be in person before January.

Everything will be voluntary for us at the start. We'll want to see how things go with stuff like elevator capacity, food courts etc. being open, whether people feel comfortable on the subway, etc. with volunteers before we force everyone back.

[KOMODO]

1 minute ago, Jaggers said:

Everything will be voluntary for us at the start. We'll want to see how things go with stuff like elevator capacity, food courts etc. being open, whether people feel comfortable on the subway, etc. with volunteers before we force everyone back.

Makes sense. Plus I think lots of people want to see how things go in the fall when cases typically rise - hopefully employers/firms won't require attendance if case numbers explode again, I think all the plans assume that cases (or at least hospitalizations) stay relatively low through the fall.

[Jaggers]

3 hours ago, KOMODO said:

Makes sense. Plus I think lots of people want to see how things go in the fall when cases typically rise - hopefully employers/firms won't require attendance if case numbers explode again, I think all the plans assume that cases (or at least hospitalizations) stay relatively low through the fall.

That is exactly what we're watching the US, UK and Israel to figure out, to see if we have to back off our plans.

[TheCryptozoologist]

Does anyone have any insight into how Court procedures are adjusting? Are they finally going to embrace the 21st Century permanently? Or are COVID measures just interim? I'd be very interested to hear whether or if they are continuing with their technology reforms, even things beyond COVID measures. 

[canuckfanatic]

I was asked whether I would like to work from home and, if so, how many days a week I would want to be in the office. I said I'd probably want to work from home 3-4 days per week, so they then asked if I'd be okay with sharing a desk on the days I'm in the office.

I was asked all this back in April, but there's been no word on an actual policy yet. Though my office is going to be heavily rearranged/renovated at some point so they'll probably implement the new policy at the same time.

[BlockedQuebecois]

I expect the courts will go back to primarily in person. Brief chambers matters might continue to be heard by phone and zoom hearings will likely replace the old phone-in systems when necessary, but I suspect anything taking up more than half a day will be in person. 

The place you’re more likely to see lasting change is ADR. The big firms will likely still want mediation and arbitration to take place in person, but if smaller firms can cut costs by having zoom med/arb, why wouldn’t they? 

[abogada]

I work for government (BC) and it is up to employees to negotiate with their supervisor. If you want to work more than 2 days/week at home it requires an additional level of approval. We are expected to be back once BC goes into Phase 4 (early September). 

[groovy1363]

Thanks everyone. 

Do you guys get the feeling that associates who take full advantage of working from home might be perceived by partners/other associates (esp. biglaw) as being less committed the firm? 

[PePeHalpert]

3 hours ago, groovy1363 said:

Thanks everyone. 

Do you guys get the feeling that associates who take full advantage of working from home might be perceived by partners/other associates (esp. biglaw) as being less committed the firm? 

No. I think the hours we worked from home during COVID proved our dedication despite not being in the office. 

[BlockedQuebecois]

3 hours ago, PePeHalpert said:

No. I think the hours we worked from home during COVID proved our dedication despite not being in the office. 

You have an optimistic view of big law partners, I see 😂

I think it will depend on how much the culture changes. If 90% of associates and the large majority of partners go back to the office close to full time and 10% are maximizing their WFH, I wouldn’t be surprised to see negative outcomes for the 10%. If most people are maximizing WFH, then obviously that won’t happen. 

[1900s]

I’d be curious to know which Toronto biglaw firms have made decisions on the transition and what that may look like. Anyone have any insight?

[PePeHalpert]

2 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

You have an optimistic view of big law partners, I see 😂

I think it will depend on how much the culture changes. If 90% of associates and the large majority of partners go back to the office close to full time and 10% are maximizing their WFH, I wouldn’t be surprised to see negative outcomes for the 10%. If most people are maximizing WFH, then obviously that won’t happen. 

Haha maybe its just my firm then, but we had some flexibility for WFH before COVID and many partners have expressed that they will continue WFH several days per week going forward, so it seems pretty well embraced over here.  

[Carey_price31]

18 hours ago, 2019Lawyer said:

I’d be curious to know which Toronto biglaw firms have made decisions on the transition and what that may look like. Anyone have any insight?

My firm just said that they are working on a formal return to office plan, which they hope to start phasing in sometime in September. No indication yet on if the expectation is that we’ll be back to pre-pandemic office life (full time in office) or if there will be some flexibility. I have a feeling it will be the former. 

[Ramesses]

Summer student at national firm in Vancouver. Rumor is our office is going to announce a 3-4 days in/1-2 days home policy next month. Our office's decision seems driven by the Vancouver market and relatively comparable to what firms in Vancouver are doing. The policy may be flexible based on practice groups (e.g. coming in more for securities and less for litigation). Also, my (limited) understanding is that firms are being competitive with their WFH policy in Vancouver to retain and attract talent at all level. 

[Jaggers]

We are doing voluntary return starting next week. For now, people who want to can work as much or as little as they want in the office.

[Ryders123]

Does the idea of returning back to the office drive anybody else insanely mad?

Private practice comes with grueling long hours. Every little bit of time that one spends not working is so precious. I don't want to waste it commuting to and from the office. I want to be able to spend that time with family, loved ones, friends, hobbies etc. so that I'm refreshed and recharged for the next work day.

I don't understand what's pushing firms to have their lawyers return. It just doesn't make sense. Most firms were extremely profitable these past 18 months (increased billings and decreased costs like meals and office parties) - so it can't be about the money.

[Jaggers]

I can’t wait to get back. I don’t like working from home. I like being in a downtown tower with my colleagues and friends close by. I like having great lunch options, or grabbing a beer after work. Working from home is fine once in a while but it’s a pale shadow compared to a good office environment. 

[ZineZ]

Just now, Jaggers said:

I can’t wait to get back. I don’t like working from home. I like being in a downtown tower with my colleagues and friends close by. I like having great lunch options, or grabbing a beer after work. Working from home is fine once in a while but it’s a pale shadow compared to a good office environment. 

Agreed. 

I'm in a jurisdiction that has let me work from the office for a few months now. It has been excellent in many ways - having the ability to pop into a colleagues office is great. 

My ideal would be a hybrid model that allows me to work from home when I need it (incoming deadline, when I'm other cities etc) but I can not work from home on a permanent basis.