The Lateral Market

[1900s]

Curious to know what people’s thoughts are on lateraling to a new practice area in the 2nd-3rd year call range? Is it too risky? Or best to do it while still fairly Junior?

[Rashabon]

How is 2nd-3rd year not still fairly junior? You've been a lawyer for one year at that point.

[minesandminerals]

On 7/16/2021 at 9:09 PM, HammurabiTime said:

Anyone have any sight on how this has impacted the Vancouver and Calgary markets?

Calgary is as hot as it’s been in years.

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by minesandminerals

[Rusty Iron Ring]

On 7/18/2021 at 10:28 AM, 2019Lawyer said:

Curious to know what people’s thoughts are on lateraling to a new practice area in the 2nd-3rd year call range? Is it too risky? Or best to do it while still fairly Junior?

2-3 years is very junior.  If you want to lateral, then do it now.  No sense putting years into building a skillset that you want to abandon to start building a new one. 

[nayaab05]

Sounds like firms are currently hiring associates they would not even consider but for the brain drain going on combined with the elevated level of transactional work - are all associates currently lateraling (whether to the states or to another shop on Bay Street) bound to be let go once things slow down? 

[Hitman9172]

30 minutes ago, nayaab05 said:

Sounds like firms are currently hiring associates they would not even consider but for the brain drain going on combined with the elevated level of transactional work - are all associates currently lateraling (whether to the states or to another shop on Bay Street) bound to be let go once things slow down? 

Hard to say, but this is one of the fears I heard from an associate who lateraled to New York recently. A senior lawyer friend of theirs went down to New York during a hiring frenzy in the 2000's and was axed once things slowed down in 2008.

[Rashabon]

53 minutes ago, nayaab05 said:

Sounds like firms are currently hiring associates they would not even consider but for the brain drain going on combined with the elevated level of transactional work - are all associates currently lateraling (whether to the states or to another shop on Bay Street) bound to be let go once things slow down? 

In Canada? Unlikely. In the states? Probably.

[nayaab05]

52 minutes ago, Hitman9172 said:

Hard to say, but this is one of the fears I heard from an associate who lateraled to New York recently. A senior lawyer friend of theirs went down to New York during a hiring frenzy in the 2000's and was axed once things slowed down in 2008.

Interesting and I am assuming it was hard for the friend to find a comparable job back in Canada? 

 

31 minutes ago, Rashabon said:

In Canada? Unlikely. In the states? Probably.

Interesting - why do you think it’s unlikely in canada? Many firms at the beginning of the pandemic let go of people. 

[Darth Vader]

6 minutes ago, nayaab05 said:

Interesting and I am assuming it was hard for the friend to find a comparable job back in Canada? 

 

Interesting - why do you think it’s unlikely in canada? Many firms at the beginning of the pandemic let go of people. 

Big law is a short stint for most people. Would would you assume that it is difficult to find a job after you've worked in Big law in Canada or the US? There are lots of other Big law firms, mid-sized firms, boutiques, and in-house positions you can join. You don't think corporate employers in Canada will be attracted to US/international Big law experience?

Canadian Big law firms are not in a hiring frenzy like in the US. The attrition rates are also better. 

This is really not a big deal. Just get the Big law experience and brand name on your resume and get out. Most people do not stick it out long enough to become senior associates and partners at these firms.

[Hitman9172]

36 minutes ago, nayaab05 said:

Interesting and I am assuming it was hard for the friend to find a comparable job back in Canada? 

He said it wasn't too difficult to find a big law job in Canada afterwards, although mentally, it was a tough pill to swallow to take that big of a pay cut, and he found that it was more difficult to make partner because: 1) he had not practiced that province's law for a few years and 2) he didn't have the relationships in the area that his peers did to bring in clients.

[Mets992]

I'm a mid-level associate in the corporate group at a big law firm in Toronto, and I have an opportunity to join a mid-sized firm in New York.  With the exchange rates, I will be more than doubling my current salary. Is the general consensus to strike while the iron is hot and make the leap to New York?

[Pendragon]

53 minutes ago, Mets992 said:

I'm a mid-level associate in the corporate group at a big law firm in Toronto, and I have an opportunity to join a mid-sized firm in New York.  With the exchange rates, I will be more than doubling my current salary. Is the general consensus to strike while the iron is hot and make the leap to New York?

Yes, but not to a mid-sized firm. You should be able to lateral to another Big law firm. Reach out to a NY recruiter. There are tons of them posting in the Ontario Reports. 

[Mets992]

7 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

Yes, but not to a mid-sized firm. You should be able to lateral to another Big law firm. Reach out to a NY recruiter. There are tons of them posting in the Ontario Reports. 

Is 300-500 lawyers considered mid-sized? What constitutes a big law firm?

[Pendragon]

3 hours ago, Mets992 said:

Is 300-500 lawyers considered mid-sized? What constitutes a big law firm?

You want to look at the V100 rankings. 

https://firsthand.co/best-companies-to-work-for/law/top-100-law-firms-rankings 

[gingerbeer]

How difficult is to lateral to a US big law firm right after articling at a large Toronto big law firm?

I assume the answer is market dependent, but trying to gauge feasibility. I've seen a couple people on linkedin do this. Would grades still be a large factor?

[Rashabon]

21 minutes ago, gingerbeer said:

How difficult is to lateral to a US big law firm right after articling at a large Toronto big law firm?

I assume the answer is market dependent, but trying to gauge feasibility. I've seen a couple people on linkedin do this. Would grades still be a large factor?

It is not all that difficult if you article with a large big law firm like a Sister. That’s assuming no change in market conditions a year from now.

[easttowest]

Three of my friends went from articling to NY or California (after taking the summer off). All from Sisters.

[ont2017]

What is the typical order of operations for moving to the US in terms of licensing? Is it better (or even possible) to secure a tentative job offer before writing the bar exam, or will firms not even look at you without a state licence?

Does anyone have experience moving to the US and "starting over" in a practice area? I'm a 2.5 year call with primarily general litigation experience (some private, some government), plus a clerkship. Not sure whether a US firm would even consider this relevant "experience" - I figure I'd be starting from the bottom in their eyes, which is more or less fine with me.

[Songbird]

7 hours ago, ont2017 said:

What is the typical order of operations for moving to the US in terms of licensing? Is it better (or even possible) to secure a tentative job offer before writing the bar exam, or will firms not even look at you without a state licence?

Does anyone have experience moving to the US and "starting over" in a practice area? I'm a 2.5 year call with primarily general litigation experience (some private, some government), plus a clerkship. Not sure whether a US firm would even consider this relevant "experience" - I figure I'd be starting from the bottom in their eyes, which is more or less fine with me.

Most people seem to secure jobs prior to qualifying in the particular state. While I suspect it may vary firm to firm, laterals are generally referred to as law clerks and work (and are paid the associate salary) until they are licensed in the state. 

Can't comment on starting over. 

[nayaab05]

Hearing that Canadians that lateralled to the US are being asked to leave. Has anyone else heard the same?

[AHappyLawyer]

Just anecdotally? I haven't heard that, but I guess it depends on market, practice and firm. 

[Swami]

is Canadian Big Law experience a must to lateral to US big law? Is it possible to lateral to US Big law with Cdn mid-size firm experience? In "normal" market conditions i.e. not too hot like a year ago. Would be interested in hearing if anyone has done this before. 

[Grey]

21 hours ago, Swami said:

is Canadian Big Law experience a must to lateral to US big law? Is it possible to lateral to US Big law with Cdn mid-size firm experience? In "normal" market conditions i.e. not too hot like a year ago. Would be interested in hearing if anyone has done this before. 

My guess is slim to none. There's so many US mid-law candidates that biglaw firms can choose from that I don't see why they would ever dip into the pool of Canadian mid-law candidates, especially in "normal" conditions. 

[Swami]

Curious to know if anyone has heard of people lateraling from large regional western firms to NYC big law?  Specifically students who lateral right after completing articling and getting called to the bar.  Also if anyone has heard of studentsgetting an NYC BL job lined up after 3L I would love some insight. 

Feel free to dm if you would rather do so.  

Edited August 20, 2022 by Swami
More info

[C_Terror]

On 8/20/2022 at 12:47 AM, Swami said:

Curious to know if anyone has heard of people lateraling from large regional western firms to NYC big law?  Specifically students who lateral right after completing articling and getting called to the bar.  Also if anyone has heard of studentsgetting an NYC BL job lined up after 3L I would love some insight. 

Feel free to dm if you would rather do so.  

My understanding is that lateralling to US Big Law right after articling is extremely rare, and only happened because of the pandemic. Now that the hiring frenzy is over, firms are going back to hiring 2+ year of calls. I can't speak specifically as to Western regional firms, but one recruiter has mentioned that NY firms tend to recruit from Canadian firms they've worked extensively with and can therefore vet the quality of their lawyers, so if your firm has done a number of cross border deals with a NY firm, that might be your best path forward.