Law Review

[ZukoJD]

I'm just wondering whether it's worth it to be on law review in first year. I've heard that this is a great extracurricular and that it looks impressive to employers, but I've also heard that it can be rather demanding and as a 1L I'm not sure if I would be better served focusing my efforts on grades and doing an extracurricular that's less involved. 

I understand it's competitive to get these positions as well so who knows whether I'd even be offered one, but maybe it'd be worth it to just throw my name in there? 

For the people here who've been on law review in 1L I'd be interested to hear what your experience was like and whether or not you found it to detract too much from your studying. I'd also be curious to hear if it opened any doors for you down the road that may have not been opened had you not partook in it. 

Thank you! 

[CleanHands]

Dunno what school you're going to but at UBC law review was by far the least "demanding" 1L volunteer opportunity (compared to LSLAP, PBSC, etc).

[Windsorhopeful]

I'll add that at UWindsor, law review for 1L is pretty much a 5 hour/semester role. 

[BlockedQuebecois]

Yeah this question is very US-centric, where 1L law review jobs are both important for formal recruits and demanding. In Canada, they're largely not (although some people will surely yell at me for suggesting they're not very demanding). 

If you want to clerk or go to New York, law review is a good thing to have on a resume. But Canadian-based employers largely don't care. 

That said, people on law review seem to enjoy it well enough. So if you have the chance and it interests you, go for. I couldn't imagine spending so much time caring about italicized commas, though. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by BlockedQuebecois

[Pantalaimon]

4 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

That said, people on law review seem to enjoy it well enough. So if you have the chance and it interests you, go for. I couldn't imagine spending so much time caring about italicized commas, though. 

I'll have you know that once there was a space before a period; thank goodness I caught that before it went out the door, can you imagine.

Law review is really chill. A little more interesting with online school, because source checking got more difficult, but yeah twenty hours a semester max.

[Pendragon]

The only law school extracurriculars that may have any noticeable effect on your career prospects down the line, are the poverty law clinics and PBSC projects, and to a lesser extent, competitive moots. These are practical experiences that many employers value even in the private firm setting. With regards to mooting, competing in a lot of moots (and even winning) in a specialized area of law can demonstrate an interest to employers. Competing in international law moots can demonstrate strong litigation skills that litigation-focused employers will like. If you're just gunning for the standard corporate law job, none of these will matter, as even business clinics are largely insignificant. Your 1L grades will be main thing corporate employers look at. 

 

[TheSocratic]

2 hours ago, CleanHands said:

Dunno what school you're going to but at UBC law review was by far the least "demanding" 1L volunteer opportunity (compared to LSLAP, PBSC, etc).

I kind of disagree with this. I did Law Review in 1L and found it to be quite demanding compared to LSLAP. Like most extracurriculars, you get out what you put in. If you really try to be diligent with your assignments, it takes a lot of time. McGill style has a fairly steep learning curve. 

I think it was well worth it. I wouldn't bother continuing with it in second year unless you really love it, but I think there are two huge benefits to doing it in 1L:

1. You learn McGill style. Your LRW class will teach you the basics, but I found that it was of limited utility compared to Law Review. There's a 95%+ chance that you will need to be able to cite well in any 1L/2L job. 
2. It does look good to many employers. I got a 1L summer job at a big firm and it was something that the recruiter mentioned as being something that drew them toward my application. Grades are still probably the most important single factor, but extracurriculars like Law Review help to distinguish you from the rest of the pool. Law Review is one of the only "main" extracurriculars that requires an application and doesn't have enough spots for everyone who's interested. It really helps firms to know that you're decent at citing, too. 

[ZukoJD]

2 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Yeah this question is very US-centric, where 1L law review jobs are both important for formal recruits and demanding. In Canada, they're largely not (although some people will surely yell at me for suggesting they're not very demanding). 

If you want to clerk or go to New York, law review is a good thing to have on a resume. But Canadian-based employers largely don't care. 

That said, people on law review seem to enjoy it well enough. So if you have the chance and it interests you, go for. I couldn't imagine spending so much time caring about italicized commas, though. 

Hmm fair enough. I guess I’ve been exposed to a bunch of US centric resources and just sort of assumed the same was applicable here. 

Good thing I asked because these answers were not at all what I was expecting!

[CleanHands]

12 minutes ago, TheSocratic said:

I kind of disagree with this. I did Law Review in 1L and found it to be quite demanding compared to LSLAP.

You're entitled to your opinion but it's unquestionably a minority one.

[ZukoJD]

6 minutes ago, TheSocratic said:

I kind of disagree with this. I did Law Review in 1L and found it to be quite demanding compared to LSLAP. Like most extracurriculars, you get out what you put in. If you really try to be diligent with your assignments, it takes a lot of time. McGill style has a fairly steep learning curve. 

I think it was well worth it. I wouldn't bother continuing with it in second year unless you really love it, but I think there are two huge benefits to doing it in 1L:

1. You learn McGill style. Your LRW class will teach you the basics, but I found that it was of limited utility compared to Law Review. There's a 95%+ chance that you will need to be able to cite well in any 1L/2L job. 
2. It does look good to many employers. I got a 1L summer job at a big firm and it was something that the recruiter mentioned as being something that drew them toward my application. Grades are still probably the most important single factor, but extracurriculars like Law Review help to distinguish you from the rest of the pool. Law Review is one of the only "main" extracurriculars that requires an application and doesn't have enough spots for everyone who's interested. It really helps firms to know that you're decent at citing, too. 

Thanks for the contrasting view! 
 

I have to admit I find citing tedious and annoying but I’d imagine most of us do. Being forced to better understand the citation guide could be good for me though.  I’d probably just do my best to get by otherwise and have a harder time later on. 
 

I would agree with your second point as well. I’m really only trying to pick 1 “substantial” EC for 1L though and LR is competing with PBSC at the moment.

 

[CleanHands]

Just now, ZukoJD said:

I would agree with your second point as well. I’m really only trying to pick 1 “substantial” EC for 1L though and LR is competing with PBSC at the moment.

If that's the case it depends on both your values and what sort of law you want to practice. For BigLaw I doubt it will matter. If you have any interest in "retail" law serving unsophisticated individual clients there is no question that the law review is not the best use of your time.

[TheSocratic]

3 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

You're entitled to your opinion but it's unquestionably a minority one.

It wasn't among those I discussed it with in my year, though I'm sure experiences vary. In my 1L year, LSLAP rarely had enough clients to go around so quite often clinics were cancelled and/or not everyone did an intake. Even when you do have an intake, there's a good chance it will take no more than a few hours unless it's a substantial file. My Law Review assignments took at least ten hours a piece, some closer to 20. The sense I got from the senior editors was that some people really blow off Law Review and put minimal effort into their assignments. I'm sure that this is the case with all extracurriculars, but with Law Review it stands out a bit more as you work in teams. 

Just now, ZukoJD said:

Thanks for the contrasting view! 
 

I have to admit I find citing tedious and annoying but I’d imagine most of us do. Being forced to better understand the citation guide could be good for me though.  I’d probably just do my best to get by otherwise and have a harder time later on. 
 

I would agree with your second point as well. I’m really only trying to pick 1 “substantial” EC for 1L though and LR is competing with PBSC at the moment.

 

I'd imagine that you would have a hard time finding anyone who can genuinely claim that they enjoy citing. That said, some of the articles are interesting and the skills really will benefit you in the medium term. I would suggest doing two substantial ECs if you can manage it, though definitely don't do it at the expense of your grades/wellbeing. 

[ZukoJD]

1 minute ago, CleanHands said:

If that's the case it depends on both your values and what sort of law you want to practice. For BigLaw I doubt it will matter. If you have any interest in "retail" law serving unsophisticated individual clients there is no question that the law review is not the best use of your time.

Good point man, thank you. 

I wish I had a clearer idea of which area I want to practice in so I could better tailor my ECs. 

I’ve just heard that an EC is more or less expected of you and I was just trying to gauge which would be better generally. Something like PBSC would seem to me to have broader applicability than LR? 

 

[TheSocratic]

5 minutes ago, ZukoJD said:

Good point man, thank you. 

I wish I had a clearer idea of which area I want to practice in so I could better tailor my ECs. 

I’ve just heard that an EC is more or less expected of you and I was just trying to gauge which would be better generally. Something like PBSC would seem to me to have broader applicability than LR? 

 

If you are just doing one major EC, I'd suggest doing either PBSC or LSLAP. If you can do two, do PBSC OR LSLAP and LR. Keep in mind that neither LSLAP or PBSC are uniform experiences. For PBSC, you'll have the organization you work with on your resume. That's more important than PBSC, generally. 

[CleanHands]

1 minute ago, TheSocratic said:

It wasn't among those I discussed it with in my year, though I'm sure experiences vary. In my 1L year, LSLAP rarely had enough clients to go around so quite often clinics were cancelled and/or not everyone did an intake.

Okay you did LSLAP during COVID I assume? May well have been different then, but in a way that was an exception to the rule.

1 minute ago, TheSocratic said:

Even when you do have an intake, there's a good chance it will take no more than a few hours unless it's a substantial file.

I regularly had to make multiple court appearances for a single file in addition to the initial client intake, further meetings/discussions, legal research, etc. I don't think it's typical for an LSLAP file to be done and dusted with a few hours work unless it's an obvious summary advice file.

Also the law review really limits assignments for each individual contributor.

In my (non-COVID) time, absolutely nobody would have claimed that the Law Review involved more obligations than LSLAP. In fact, part of the pitch for the Law Review in the recruitment session explicitly was that it was far more effortless than every other 1L volunteering opportunity.

That may well have been your experience but it's not typical and generalizable at all and it only makes sense if you were involved in both last year when the courts were basically closed and LSLAP presumably had next to nothing to do.

[ZukoJD]

3 minutes ago, TheSocratic said:

If you are just doing one major EC, I'd suggest doing either PBSC or LSLAP. If you can do two, do PBSC OR LSLAP and LR. Keep in mind that neither LSLAP or PBSC are uniform experiences. For PBSC, you'll have the organization you work with on your resume. That's more important than PBSC, generally. 

It looks like LSLAP is a B.C thing. I’ll try to see if uOttawa has some sort of equivalent offered. I haven’t seen anything like that advertised to us yet though.

[Psychometronic]

Doing something is better than doing nothing because (at least at my school), almost everyone participates in some sort of extracurricular in 1L. However, since almost everyone participates in something, it also means you're not likely to stand out amongst your peers by being an editor with Law Review (as opposed to the Editor in Chief, for example). 

That said, I agree with those who said that Law Review is not onerous. I think people were really gunning for it at my school because of the view that it's as competitive or meaningful in Canada as the US. It's not, but you still gain some useful skills from it. 

Grades will matter more than ECs for the recruits so you should probably carve out enough time to get good grades. This will get your application to the first interview stage at least. As far as I'm aware, you can sign up for something and leave if you've overcommitted. As long as you tell an exec, of course.

Also, some unsolicited advice: execs (aka, your future peers in the legal community) will remember people who do a poor job. If you sign up for anything, try to do a good job and and make sure the work is handed off to someone else if you must leave. 

[BlockedQuebecois]

I’m not at all convinced 95% of 1L or 2L jobs will require you to know how to cite cases with the McGill guide. 

First off, if you’re citing cases in McGill guide format as a corporate lawyer I assume something has gone terribly wrong. Like you accidentally stumbled onto the litigation floor of your office and you’re too stupid to tell the difference between a factum and a prospectus.

Second, I never glanced at the McGill guide during my time as a summer student (and really haven’t since). And that’s as someone who essentially only did litigation work. Most courts have their own preferred citation styles, and most firms will have practices they use for their citations. Most obviously, essentially nobody uses ibid or supra when writing facta, and most courts won’t use them in their decisions. If your firm is telling you to use either of those terms, you should probably find a new firm. 

I’m sure some jobs slavishly follow the McGill guide’s recommendations, but I have to think it’s a very small minority. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by BlockedQuebecois

[Darth Vader]

2 hours ago, ZukoJD said:

It looks like LSLAP is a B.C thing. I’ll try to see if uOttawa has some sort of equivalent offered. I haven’t seen anything like that advertised to us yet though.

All law schools have clinics. Ottawa has a ton of practical opportunities like UBC's LSLAP.

https://commonlaw.uottawa.ca/en/students/student-centre/course/clinics 

https://commonlaw.uottawa.ca/en/students/student-centre/course

https://commonlaw.uottawa.ca/en/students/student-centre/course_search_engine (under class type, see the different option available)

At Osgoode at least, the most competitive extracurriculars you could land were some of the clinical programs and Pro Bono placements. I gather this is similar across most law schools here. The student clubs, journals/newspapers, and moots aren't that difficult to do. Student government can also be competitive but it's more of a popularity contest than something you land on merit. Ottawa has a lot of great extracurriculars you could get involved in over the writing ones. You should also figure out what you want to pursue by the end of 1L as it will be determinative of how you approach the 2L OCI recruitment process, and possibly, the articling recruitment which takes place in the summer before 3L. 

[HammurabiTime]

8 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

I’m not at all convinced 95% of 1L or 2L jobs will require you to know how to cite cases with the McGill guide. 

First off, if you’re citing cases in McGill guide format as a corporate lawyer I assume something has gone terribly wrong. Like you accidentally stumbled onto the litigation floor of your office and you’re too stupid to tell the difference between a factum and a prospectus.

Second, I never glanced at the McGill guide during my time as a summer student (and really haven’t since). And that’s as someone who essentially only did litigation work. Most courts have their own preferred citation styles, and most firms will have practices they use for their citations. Most obviously, essentially nobody uses ibid or supra when writing facta, and most courts won’t use them in their decisions. If your firm is telling you to use either of those terms, you should probably find a new firm. 

I’m sure some jobs slavishly follow the McGill guide’s recommendations, but I have to think it’s a very small minority. 

This mirrors my experience. In my first Summer job I did all my citations in accordance with the McGill Guide and quickly learned that there were a lot of differences between what was in the McGill guide and what was expected in citation style at my firm. When I read materials from other firms I don't think I've seen any that appear to adopt the McGill guide style.

[QueensDenning]

I did 1L law review and can’t see why employers would find it impressive. I found every other EC more interesting/rewarding and wasn’t asked about it in any of my interviews for jobs this summer. I also don’t see how knowing McGill guide will help in upper years/on the job. With the exception of one or two, all my profs cared about with citing was if they could locate the relevant paragraph in the case I was citing to or whatever. I’m sure my citations were not in 100% proper format, and I never lost any grades because of it. 

1 minute ago, QueensDenning said:

 

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by QueensDenning
Screwed up formatting

[LegalPerson]

On 8/21/2021 at 4:01 AM, QueensDenning said:

I did 1L law review and can’t see why employers would find it impressive. I found every other EC more interesting/rewarding and wasn’t asked about it in any of my interviews for jobs this summer. I also don’t see how knowing McGill guide will help in upper years/on the job. With the exception of one or two, all my profs cared about with citing was if they could locate the relevant paragraph in the case I was citing to or whatever. I’m sure my citations were not in 100% proper format, and I never lost any grades because of it. 

 

^Failed to cite a single source in support of his/her position.

[QueensDenning]

1 hour ago, LegalPerson said:

^Failed to cite a single source in support of his/her position.

I'm having a long day - this is a joke? 

[LegalPerson]

On 8/26/2021 at 7:52 PM, QueensDenning said:

I'm having a long day - this is a joke? 

I trust that you're smart enough to figure that one out