Ask A Current Student

[TobyFlenderson]

Hey everyone! I'm entering 3L at Western so I've been around the law school block a little bit, and I thought it might be helpful to provide a place for incoming or current students to ask any questions they might have! I've also recently secured an articling position, so I can provide some insight into what that process looks like, how to navigate it and what to expect in interviews. 

Looking forward to (hopefully) seeing some of you around the building in September!

[success28]

Hey, what would you think my chances are for Western U? I just finished my third year and will be applying in September.

stats: 

LSAT: 168 

cGPA: 3.44

L2/B2: 3.72

good EC's, LOR's (good is subjective lol but I've been told they're decent)

 

Thanks for your help! 

[TobyFlenderson]

With the caveat that I didn't really follow the Accepted thread from the last forum for this year, so I can't comment on the most recent trends beyond the general note that things seem more competitive right now than when I applied in 2018. That said, I think if you'd applied the year I did, you would have been accepted (barring a fundamental flaw in your PS or something). In your fourth year, be sure to keep your grades up. That will pull your cGPA up, which helps. Keep that L2/B2 above 3.7. Great LSAT though, you'll almost certainly get in somewhere so at least you don't have to worry about rewriting!

[Renerik]

Hey Tobi,

I'm applying this coming cycle to all L2/B2 schools (3.5 cGPA, 3.91 L2). I've got a 3-parter for you. How do you justify the high tuition price at UWO compared to schools that cost half as much such as UofA, TRU, etc? Do you know of any significant differences in education/support/lifestyle that you get at UWO as opposed to other schools? Say you were a recruiter and wanted to sell me on your school, why should I attend Western instead of somewhere else?

[DABMAN]

Hey Toby,

Nice seeing you again. Just wondering if you have any neighbourhood recommendations for living off-campus? The good and the bad?

 

Thanks

[livitup1233]

Things you wish you knew before 1L?

[TobyFlenderson]

3 hours ago, Renerik said:

Hey Tobi,

I'm applying this coming cycle to all L2/B2 schools (3.5 cGPA, 3.91 L2). I've got a 3-parter for you. How do you justify the high tuition price at UWO compared to schools that cost half as much such as UofA, TRU, etc? Do you know of any significant differences in education/support/lifestyle that you get at UWO as opposed to other schools? Say you were a recruiter and wanted to sell me on your school, why should I attend Western instead of somewhere else?

1) my justification for the price is that the school is in Ontario, the only province I applied, and for Ontario it’s pretty middle of the pack. UofT/Osgoode are more expensive. Ottawa, my second choice, is marginally cheaper. But living in Ottawa would have been (slightly) more expensive. The math I did at the time suggested it would be very similar in overall cost, but Ottawa would have been more expensive because travelling home for holidays and whatnot would have either been much more in gas, or a relatively expensive train ticket. Western was geographically close to my friends and family. I liked the school. Legal education in Canada is, for the most part, uniform in quality. I think most people, in their law school decision, are paying more/less for the non-academic components of their three years.

If I wanted to sell you on the school, I’d tell you about the collegial environment, that London is a great city, Western has great profs, and I’ve had a great experience. In hindsight, I would have been somewhere between unhappy and less happy at Ottawa. 

The catch here is that these are all subjective and personal experiences and considerations. If you want to stay close to home, and you live in Vancouver, Western doesn’t check that box. If you want to live in a big city for three years, and London is too small, then Western doesn’t check that box either. I would really encourage you to think about what you want out of law school, and then consider what schools can give you that. I would reiterate though that Western was undoubtedly the right choice for me. I’m happy to be there, and I would encourage anyone interested in law school in Ontario to give Western serious consideration.

I hope this is helpful. Always happy to clarify/flesh out answers if you’d like!

1 hour ago, DABMAN said:

Hey Toby,

Nice seeing you again. Just wondering if you have any neighbourhood recommendations for living off-campus? The good and the bad?

 

Thanks

Dabman! Glad to see you’re here. I was very lucky in 1L that I found a non-student housing spot with my partner at the time. It was the first spot we looked, and it was spacious, cheap, well located, really it was perfect. Unfortunately when the pandemic hit, we gave it up. We didn’t really look at the “typical” student housing as a result, so I can’t comment on that beyond the warning that a good portion, if not all, of London student housing has a pest problem. The nature of the pest depends on the place, but look up reviews of EVERYWHERE you consider renting. If the reviews from four years ago says cockroaches, they probably still have them. Even my little slice of paradise had a pest problem of a furrier variety.

In terms of general neighborhood, it really depends what you want. I knew people that lived downtown because it was a short stumble home on Saturday night and a short enough drive to school on Monday. Cherryhill is nice, but prices vary and some people find it too far from the school. The one common piece of advice you’ll find is to stay west of Adelaide. The east side, while much improved in the last few years, is definitely a little rougher around the edges than say Masonville. 

I am hopeful that Western commits soon to either in person or online. I have no interest in paying rent if I don’t need to, but at the same time I don’t want to be looking for a place so late that my options are slim. 1L will almost certainly be in person though, so incoming students should look for housing.

55 minutes ago, livitup1233 said:

Things you wish you knew before 1L?

It’s okay to feel lost. You might spend the first month, the first two months, the first semester, maybe the entire first year, kind of lost. My midterm grades in 1L were below average. I spent a lot of 1L reflecting on whether I’d made a mistake going to law school, like it just wasn’t absorbing. It’s an adjustment, and when finals came around, I was MUCH more confident, more than I had expected. Turns out, I knew a lot more than I thought I did, and even though classes went pass/fail, one prof emailed out general feedback to the class, and included a list of anonymous exam IDs of people who did particularly well. I was one of them. All this to say, just keep working at it and the lightbulb will, eventually, turn on.

Another piece of advice I wish someone had told me was the balancing act between independent learning and using summaries. During orientation week, upper years will give you summaries for your profs/classes, and explain what summaries are and why they’re useful. What they often didn’t explain was how to use one during the year. It’s easy to look at a summary, know you have the entire course in 100 pages, and neglect some readings or tune out in class. I saw it all the time. People online shopping, watching YouTube videos, otherwise distracting themselves. Summaries do not replace your own learning, at least not in 1L. Do the readings (at least some of them!), pay attention in class, take notes. Treat your classes like you don’t have any summaries. Then, come exam time, look at the summaries you have and they’ll make more sense, they’ll be more useful, and you can start to review without worrying about creating a massive, organized summary yourself. Summaries are an organizational shortcut, not a substantive knowledge one.

Those are the two big things that come to mind, from both my own experience and the mistakes I saw classmates make. Some advice I saw on LS.ca right before it closed, from an incoming 2L, is to embrace being average and rejection. Western has a B curve. If you get a B, you’re average. That’s an adjustment for some people, because they’re used to As. You’re also in a very competitive space. You might not get that interview, or that offer. You might not win your moot. You might not get that clinic spot. None of these things are bad. More often than not, they’re learning experiences, and the sooner you transition your mindset from “oh I lost” to “how do I learn from this? How do I win next time and avoid repeating mistakes?”, the better off you’ll be.

I hope this is helpful. I realize it might sound like a lot, maybe a little intimidating, but don’t worry. Everyone’s in the same boat. You’ll be comfortable in the mix before you know it.

Happy to clarify anything I can or answer new questions! 

 

[DABMAN]

27 minutes ago, TobyFlenderson said:

1L will almost certainly be in person though

Thanks for the reply!

Just wondering what makes you think 1L will certainly be in person?

 

[TobyFlenderson]

9 minutes ago, DABMAN said:

Thanks for the reply!

Just wondering what makes you think 1L will certainly be in person?

 

1L was mostly in person even this year, aside from the lockdown periods when it couldn’t be. COVID should be less of an issue this year, so 1L being in person seems like a guarantee.

[Sparky]

On 6/6/2021 at 8:49 AM, Renerik said:

Hey Tobi,

I'm applying this coming cycle to all L2/B2 schools (3.5 cGPA, 3.91 L2). I've got a 3-parter for you. How do you justify the high tuition price at UWO compared to schools that cost half as much such as UofA, TRU, etc? Do you know of any significant differences in education/support/lifestyle that you get at UWO as opposed to other schools? Say you were a recruiter and wanted to sell me on your school, why should I attend Western instead of somewhere else?

It doesn't really make much sense to compare tuition prices across provinces. If you have the flexibility to go where ever you want and work in any market you choose, then by all means, pick the school with the lower tuition. For those of us who want to stay near the GTA and practice close to our families/friends, it makes more sense to attend a school close to the region, or at least in Ontario. The justification for paying the higher price for Western for most of us is the fact that all of the schools in the region have a comparable rate. I, too, would love to be able to pay less than 10k a year in tuition, but the truth of the matter is that if I were a plane ride away from the GTA rather than a drive away, it would be much more difficult to network, find summer jobs, find articling jobs, etc, in the market I want to work in.

[historicaladvantage]

On 6/6/2021 at 12:57 AM, success28 said:

Hey, what would you think my chances are for Western U? I just finished my third year and will be applying in September.

stats: 

LSAT: 168 

cGPA: 3.44

L2/B2: 3.72

good EC's, LOR's (good is subjective lol but I've been told they're decent)

 

Thanks for your help! 

Very likely in -- just keep that 3.72 up in your L2. 

Edited June 12, 2021 by historicaladvantage

[lawstudent123]

When does orientation start and when do classes start? Do you do your readings for first week of classes during orientation? 

Edited July 12, 2021 by lawstudent123

[TobyFlenderson]

33 minutes ago, lawstudent123 said:

When does orientation start and when do classes start? Do you do your readings for first week of classes during orientation? 

Orientation starts the first week of school (not a week earlier, like some other schools). I think the first day of class this year is Sept 7, so that would be your first day of orientation. That’ll run for a week, and then class will start. Don’t worry about doing readings over orientation.

If you have readings to do for the very first day of class (the Monday after orientation), you can wait to do them the weekend before. Similarly, don’t try and do the entire week’s worth of readings over the weekend.

I liked to do my readings the day before so it was still fresh. So, if I had a Monday class, I read for that on Sunday, and then after Monday classes, I read for Tuesday’s classes, and so on. 

[lawstudent123]

4 hours ago, TobyFlenderson said:

Orientation starts the first week of school (not a week earlier, like some other schools). I think the first day of class this year is Sept 7, so that would be your first day of orientation. That’ll run for a week, and then class will start. Don’t worry about doing readings over orientation.

If you have readings to do for the very first day of class (the Monday after orientation), you can wait to do them the weekend before. Similarly, don’t try and do the entire week’s worth of readings over the weekend.

I liked to do my readings the day before so it was still fresh. So, if I had a Monday class, I read for that on Sunday, and then after Monday classes, I read for Tuesday’s classes, and so on. 

Thank you!! 

[crablaw]

Hi Toby,

Any estimate on 1L book costs/anywhere I can get an advanced textbook list or/ do you know when it comes out? I like to save on books so the more time I have to shop around the better. 

Thanks for this thread btw!!

[TobyFlenderson]

I seem to recall buying my textbooks during orientation, which is the first week of school. Assuming you have  1L profs that are repeat profs, that upper years have already had, you should have no problem buying your textbooks used from other students at a lower price.

You may be able find books slightly cheaper than the bookstore online in digital formats, although not everyone likes having their textbooks digitally (and, depending on how exams are administered, a digital textbook may not be allowed for the exam while a physical copy is).

 

[Parker]

For digital copies of textbooks, do most 1Ls use the physical textbook during exams or is it more outlines?

[TobyFlenderson]

The last time I wrote an in-person exam, which was Dec 2019, the exam software locked down your laptop so you couldn’t access anything but the exam. Using digital textbooks on the exam was not an option.

That said, you should really only be using your outlines/quicksheets. If you’re cracking open a textbook in the middle of an exam, something has gone wrong. 

[spinelli]

Does Western require students to bring hard copy of summaries to exams or do they allow access to your hard drive on Examplify?

[plscrown]

4 hours ago, spinelli said:

Does Western require students to bring hard copy of summaries to exams or do they allow access to your hard drive on Examplify?

You have to look at the exam controls. When the time comes to download your exam on Examplify, you can see het exam controls for that specific course on that screen. It will differ depending on the exam/prof.

[goosie]

On 2/4/2022 at 11:00 AM, spinelli said:

Does Western require students to bring hard copy of summaries to exams or do they allow access to your hard drive on Examplify?

On 2/4/2022 at 3:11 PM, plscrown said:

You have to look at the exam controls. When the time comes to download your exam on Examplify, you can see het exam controls for that specific course on that screen. It will differ depending on the exam/prof.

I would add that pre-COVID, you always had to bring hard copies of your summaries to exams. They only started allowing you to access your summaries on your computer in April 2020 when we first started writing exams remotely. This past term before exams went remote again it seemed like they were for the most part leaving it up to the prof, but it also seemed like they didn't communicate that with the professors very well - the professors of both of my classes that had exams were surprised it was an option when students asked if they could change the exam settings. Then when exams went remote everything was changed again so that we could access our hard drives. All of that is to say that I'm not sure what the rules will be post-COVID, though students are definitely pro-not having to print out 60-100 page summaries for every exam and the SLS has definitely communicated that.

[jurisdoctoring]

Hi! I've been accepted to both Ottawa and Western thus far but I'm leaning towards Western. I have a strong interest in international law specifically involving international organizations and multilateral agreements. Can anyone comment on Western's aptitude in this area? I know that there are a few internships (WTO etc) each year and the faculty seems relatively strong. Are there research opportunities with professors? Is there generally a good chunk of the class that focuses in international law?

[goosie]

On 2/11/2022 at 11:58 AM, jurisdoctoring said:

Hi! I've been accepted to both Ottawa and Western thus far but I'm leaning towards Western. I have a strong interest in international law specifically involving international organizations and multilateral agreements. Can anyone comment on Western's aptitude in this area? I know that there are a few internships (WTO etc) each year and the faculty seems relatively strong. Are there research opportunities with professors? Is there generally a good chunk of the class that focuses in international law?

I haven't focused as much in international law as some of my classmates, so anyone can feel free to step in and add or correct anything I've said. I know quite a few of my classmates do focus more on international law (though I'm not sure how many of them are actually trying to pursue a career in the area) and there's certainly a lot of opportunities. One of the profs is a UN Special Rapporteur, and I'm pretty sure he takes on one or two students every year to do research with him. Another of the international law profs used to work with the federal Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, I believe she has also taken on students for research opportunities. Western also jointly administers the Canada-US Legal Institute so there's normally extracurricular opportunities with that and/or with the Canada-US Law Journal. In terms of courses there's a mix of public and private international law classes.

I would add that the internships you're referring to have been unfortunately curtailed due to COVID. I believe the WTO, WHO, and UN internships (except for the UNHCR Canada internship in Ottawa) didn't happen last summer and I'm not sure about this year. That being said my understanding is that this is only while the university isn't sanctioning international exchanges or internships associated with Western.

[Darth Vader]

On 2/11/2022 at 11:58 AM, jurisdoctoring said:

Hi! I've been accepted to both Ottawa and Western thus far but I'm leaning towards Western. I have a strong interest in international law specifically involving international organizations and multilateral agreements. Can anyone comment on Western's aptitude in this area? I know that there are a few internships (WTO etc) each year and the faculty seems relatively strong. Are there research opportunities with professors? Is there generally a good chunk of the class that focuses in international law?

Thr vast majority of Western grads go into business law or retail law. By all means get involved in these international-focused ECs in law school, but know that these are not going to translate into full-time jobs coming out. There is a good discussion about international law careers here - https://canlawforum.com/topic/2294-ubc-vs-uoft-vs-osgoode-international-law/. If these careers are tough to break into from even three of Canada's best schools, they will be even more challenging out of Western. 

 

[ltmaverick25]

On 6/6/2021 at 8:49 AM, Renerik said:

Hey Tobi,

I'm applying this coming cycle to all L2/B2 schools (3.5 cGPA, 3.91 L2). I've got a 3-parter for you. How do you justify the high tuition price at UWO compared to schools that cost half as much such as UofA, TRU, etc? Do you know of any significant differences in education/support/lifestyle that you get at UWO as opposed to other schools? Say you were a recruiter and wanted to sell me on your school, why should I attend Western instead of somewhere else?

University of Alberta no longer costs half as much. It is a few thousand cheaper, but not enough to make a material difference in choosing between both schools, especially given the huge geographic distance between them.