Barrister exam today

[capitalttruth]

5 hours ago, sarcasticlemon said:

I felt the barrister exam was more difficult than any practise test I took. And I did tests from emond, access bar prep and Ontario law exams. I’m incredibly nervous for the solicitor because my introductory knowledge of the material is already lower, and the material is very dense and less common sense. 

I found family the worst section because of all the “which is the BEST answer” and “what would you do FIRST” questions.

I decided to defer the solicitor until November so I can take my time with the materials, knowing there is a larger learning curve because my baseline knowledge is much lower. Ditto with respect to your feelings about the Barrister, I was honestly so surprised to see how the questions were designed across the entire exam. Truthfully, every section felt difficult. I felt like I was guessing for a large proportion of the entire test, which didn't leave me with a good feeling initially. As the days have gone on, though, I am starting to feel a bit better, as I am remembering some of the difficult questions I was taking my time on and realizing I got them right. I'm prepared to re-write if I have to, at least we now know what to expect out of the exam.

[loonie]

Legit only started reading the Solicitor materials this morning. Going to try to read ~100 pages a day with a strict cut-off of June 13th being the final day for reading. If I have any material left to read, I'll skim it and resort to the UofT summaries. Also, the Charts for the Solicitor exam seem a lot more intuitive to use (and more useful in general) than those for the Barrister. 

The remaining four days I'll use for practice tests and re-reading PR and the Rules a bunch of times. If anything, I felt overprepared for the Barrister. I knew the materials pretty well, but I feel like it didn't necessarily help with how the questions were phrased. Therefore, any adjustments I make this time around will be procedural changes rather than substantive ones. 

Speaking with those who have already written, PR is going to be around 40% of the questions on the Solicitor exam. Seems like a lot, but I've heard it from several people now. Even on the Barrister, there was a lot more than I was originally expecting. So, yeah, that's pretty much my game plan this time around: (i) to know PR to the point where I can save a significant amount of time on those questions and (ii) for the remaining ~90-100 questions, be cognizant of how the questions are structured and keep that in mind while studying the materials to make mental notes of inferences that may need to be made/how certain material ties in together. 

Rather moot and silly point but if there's 60 PR questions, which I think is entirely possible, and you score 80% on them, then for the remaining 100 questions, you likely only need to score 60-62% on them to pass. But, like I said, that's probably a silly and arbitrary way to look at things. 

 

[hairpins]

 

4 hours ago, loonie said:

Legit only started reading the Solicitor materials this morning. Going to try to read ~100 pages a day with a strict cut-off of June 13th being the final day for reading. If I have any material left to read, I'll skim it and resort to the UofT summaries. Also, the Charts for the Solicitor exam seem a lot more intuitive to use (and more useful in general) than those for the Barrister. 

The remaining four days I'll use for practice tests and re-reading PR and the Rules a bunch of times. If anything, I felt overprepared for the Barrister. I knew the materials pretty well, but I feel like it didn't necessarily help with how the questions were phrased. Therefore, any adjustments I make this time around will be procedural changes rather than substantive ones. 

Speaking with those who have already written, PR is going to be around 40% of the questions on the Solicitor exam. Seems like a lot, but I've heard it from several people now. Even on the Barrister, there was a lot more than I was originally expecting. So, yeah, that's pretty much my game plan this time around: (i) to know PR to the point where I can save a significant amount of time on those questions and (ii) for the remaining ~90-100 questions, be cognizant of how the questions are structured and keep that in mind while studying the materials to make mental notes of inferences that may need to be made/how certain material ties in together. 

Rather moot and silly point but if there's 60 PR questions, which I think is entirely possible, and you score 80% on them, then for the remaining 100 questions, you likely only need to score 60-62% on them to pass. But, like I said, that's probably a silly and arbitrary way to look at things. 

 

I plan to take a similar approach. I have about 150 pages left of Solicitor readings (real estate - ffs it is so badly written) to do and I plan to spend any time I can on reading through PR materials. I finish reading Solicitor materials June 11 and then I am going to spend the remaining time on practice questions, practice exams, and rereading PR as many times as I can. I am really bad at multiple choice, so I really struggled with the exam even though I felt I knew the material.

I get caught up in the wording of PR questions because they're often so unrealistic. I am very neurodivergent, and I struggle with reading questions like this in a very literal way. As an example, "Lawyer X in hypothetical situation is meeting with client what is the MAIN reason for meeting with the client" My brain reads this and goes, "how tf am I supposed to know: the lawyer is not real and his intentions could by literally anything" because the question does not ask what the reason that is most in line with PR rules or something of the sort it literally asks a stupid question and then expects us to read between the lines on what it is actually asking. It sounds really stupid and fixable, but I have had this challenge my whole life because, in the stress of exams, I can't see between the lines, and it takes like a day or two after the exam to think through it to realize what they intended to ask with questions like that. It makes me feel stupid when I am actually really fkn good with the law and with people, but I am really bad with made-up hypothetical multiple-choice questions. My plan is just to get so familiar with the materials and choose the answer that best reflects the material rather than answering whatever stupid thing they ask. 

Edited June 8, 2024 by Ribbons

[loonie]

21 hours ago, Ribbons said:

 

I plan to take a similar approach. I have about 150 pages left of Solicitor readings (real estate - ffs it is so badly written) to do and I plan to spend any time I can on reading through PR materials. I finish reading Solicitor materials June 11 and then I am going to spend the remaining time on practice questions, practice exams, and rereading PR as many times as I can. I am really bad at multiple choice, so I really struggled with the exam even though I felt I knew the material.

I get caught up in the wording of PR questions because they're often so unrealistic. I am very neurodivergent, and I struggle with reading questions like this in a very literal way. As an example, "Lawyer X in hypothetical situation is meeting with client what is the MAIN reason for meeting with the client" My brain reads this and goes, "how tf am I supposed to know: the lawyer is not real and his intentions could by literally anything" because the question does not ask what the reason that is most in line with PR rules or something of the sort it literally asks a stupid question and then expects us to read between the lines on what it is actually asking. It sounds really stupid and fixable, but I have had this challenge my whole life because, in the stress of exams, I can't see between the lines, and it takes like a day or two after the exam to think through it to realize what they intended to ask with questions like that. It makes me feel stupid when I am actually really fkn good with the law and with people, but I am really bad with made-up hypothetical multiple-choice questions. My plan is just to get so familiar with the materials and choose the answer that best reflects the material rather than answering whatever stupid thing they ask. 

I can see that being very annoying with regards to multiple choice testing. Take solace in the fact that this is, hopefully, the last time you'll have to deal with hypothetical scenarios opposed to real-world application. I think the approach you mentioned is wise though - best of luck on the exam! 

[capitalttruth]

Anyone else torturing themselves realizing you got multiple questions wrong and catastrophizing? That's been me all day! I felt better yesterday, today was much worse.

 

[LMP]

1 hour ago, capitalttruth said:

Anyone else torturing themselves realizing you got multiple questions wrong and catastrophizing? That's been me all day! I felt better yesterday, today was much worse.

 

I'm surprised you can even remember them all. 

 

[hairpins]

12 hours ago, capitalttruth said:

Anyone else torturing themselves realizing you got multiple questions wrong and catastrophizing? That's been me all day! I felt better yesterday, today was much worse.

 

I've been trying not to haha but I definitely have been doing this

[Blahblah]

Friends. If anyone here has been successful I would appreciate if you can share some quick strategies either than memorizing the material, which I feel like a lot of candidates are doing. And something I know my cohort - graduated a few years go - did not have the time to do. Please keep in mind it has been a few years since I graduated so all the content we studied in law school is a distant memory. I am a mature candidate with a kid, my classmates are all 5 year calls now so if someone is even willing to have a quick chat with me - I would be happy to share ANYTHING with you, we’ll, within reason. I’m getting old and want to practise law before I die! Thank you!

[SNAILS]

I'm not sure if we are talking about the bar exam or the solicitors exam, but my advice is mostly the same.

My advice is to analyse the reasons you felt you did not pass.

Was it:

1. Ran out of time before fully considering all questions?
2. Excessive time spent on certain questions (i.e. 4+ minutes on some questions, and then barely taking the time to read a question as the time runs out)?
3. Lack of knowledge / ability to reference materials with certain types of questions (ex. where to appeal? Filing deadlines?)
4. Weakness in one or more subject areas (ex. Professional responsibility, Business Law, Estate Planning, Real Estate)
5. Nerves got to you (i.e. you panicked and could not think straight)

If you have not paid for and taken a variety of practice exams, do so (Emond, Accessbarprep.com, ontariopreacticeexams.com, ontariolawexam.com). In fact, pay for and do any reputable exams you have not done, and thoroughly look at the reasons you got questions right and wrong. That being said, we all know that the last bar/solicitors exams were unlike the prep exams. These practice exams might still point you in the right direction for areas of improvement.

If you did not read the University of Toronto summaries, charts, and indexes, do so. If you did not practice looking questions up with the index, do so.

If you did not read all the materials twice or three times (without distractions) do so. 

Take four colours of highlighters and marks it up (one colour for dates, one colour for statues and case law, one colour for tib-bit's of knowledge you think would answer a question). Focus on what you don't know, and move more quickly through what you already know. For me, it was the financial and tax considerations in business law.

Next, develop a strategy that specifically alleviates the root cause of missed questions

Your weak area was running out of time? Use a table that tells you what question you need to be on at what time and strictly force yourself to not spend too much time on one question. My strategy was no move quickly through the entire exam and circle questions I want to go back to on second reading. 

Difficulty with certain types of question?  Let's say it's "filing deadlines" type of questions. Study it extra hard and have the charts handy and tabbed and make yourself super familiar with them.

Disorganized materials? Tab it better or differently this time. Use WAY more little sticky tabs and label them.

Too many materials? This is an odd one, but I almost felt that I had too much stuff with me. I had the U of T indexes, charts, and summaries and the official martials on top of that. I felt I would have been better off doing all of the "Professional Responsibility" stuff closed book. I would leave all that at home next time or not print it at all. These questions were mostly common  sense and a HUGE time waster trying to find answers to questions that really boil down to a judgement call.

Problems with flow and strategy? Everyone has their own little sequence when they get a question they don't know.

• Do I answer it closed book and move on without referencing anything?
• Do I turn to the Index first?
• Do I turn to the U of T chart first?
• Do I use the detailed table of contents?

For me, saving time was key, and I most commonly answered questions without referencing anything, thus allowing me to pick up probably 10 correct answers because I had that extra time towards the end to thoroughly look up selected questions. That extra time had to be at the end, for me, or else I would not know which questions were "worth" that extra time. It also helped me avoid the pitfall of running out of time overall.

I went "chart first" on some questions, "index first most commonly, and "detailed TOC" basically never. You have to know your own flow and commit it almost to muscle memory under timed and stressful conditions.

Since the U of T index is probably your go-to, @Blahblah, based on your statement that you don't want to memorize everything, then you really need to consider how you will know what keyword to search in the index. For me, it goes back to being familiar with the materials. If I got a questions, let's say, about a right of way in real estate, it would trigger in my head where I read something about that, and it would trigger a search word in my head that was not necessarily anywhere in the question or potential answers. 

Weakness in a certain subject area? Obviously, if you took Real Estate in school and got an A, but you did not take Estate planning, you need to study the latter harder. I believe I spend more study time on the Business Law materials than the other 3 sections combined in preparation for the Solicitor's. That's because it was my weak area, and I had studies Professional responsibility already for the Barrister's.

It goes beyond that through. I was quite versed in the Planning Act, so I browsed through that in no time. Even through I was strong in real Estate before I started, I was not strong in Construction Liens, so I studied that extra hard. I was strong in non-unionized employment law, but weak in unionized labour law.

You suffered stress and panic and could not think straight? Tough to deal with, but I would say you should expose yourself to stressful situations similar to the bar exam repeatedly to desensitize yourself (for example, doing practice exams again under timed conditions, having a friend quiz you on the materials, etc).

General Tips

Process of elimination: cross off clearly wrong answers. If you narrow it down to 2, you have a 50/50 chance

Be willing to be wrong / quickly abandon certain questions: If you don't know the answer, you don't know it. By my estimate, you can get 30-40 questions wrong and still pass. If you let a bothersome question mess with your head it could make you panic and distract you from fully reading and answering other questions because your heart rate is up and your mind is till on that question. If you abandon it in less than 60 seconds, you have lots of time for the next question, and that next question is probably one more worth your time. On top of that, you have a 1 in 4 chance of getting that question.

Deal with common sense questions fast: I think a lot of these are professional responsibility questions. A client is rude to you. Do you get off record? Do you ignore it? Do you politely advise them that they have the right to get another lawyer if they are not confident in your legal abilities? Do you ask another lawyer for help? 

Do not flip through your materials looking for the answer. Just answer it and move on. You'll probably be right, and if you are wrong, you are wrong, but you saved a few minutes.

Two run through's strategy: I did a fast run through, then returned to questions I found difficult. I'm think this may be a bad strategy for a person if it does not fit your style, but it worked for me. One of the big downsides is I lost some time transcribing my answers from the booklet to the scan-tron. If I did it again, i would lightly shade in the answer I thought was right on the scan-tron, darken it or erase it on the second run through, and save the last 2 minutes of the exam to darken any circles. 

I was actually amazed how correct answers popped out at me on the second read through when i had no idea on the first read through.

Eliminate transcription errors: It is quite likely that some of the people who were not successful on the bar exam made errors transcribing your answers. For example, you skipped question 22 and then put your answer for question 23 in the wrong row and that kind of thing. make sure you look at your scan-tron line by line. Do I have only one answer per line? Did I leave any lines blank (if you have 60 seconds left, just fill one circle randomly).

Boosting by 5 marks: At the end, there were questions that I would have never gotten unless I found that one little obscure passage somewhere deep in the materials. I was able to take extra time for these questions because I saved time with my other strategies. Once I found the relevant part of the materials, I knew I had the right answer. these 5 marks or so could have put me above the passing threshold.

Thorough reading of questions: Going along with the theme of doing a second read-through, I probably picked up a few correct answers by seeing some little detail on the second read through. OMG - this is a question about federal employment law?  OMG - this client is paying in US dollars?

This seems to only work for me if I have moved onto other questions and then gone back. When I read it a second time after having read it for the first time 20 seconds ago, I don't see the detail I missed. Under high stress conditions, your eyes see what your brain tells it to see, not what's actually on the paper.

Encouragement

If you were unsuccessful, you probably feel a ton of stress, and the spectre of "what if I fail 3 or 4 times" creeps in. Some people might console themselves by saying "I'll move to a province without a bar exam," but I think that's overly pessimistic. You have your last attempt to learn off. We all know the nature of the exam was unlike, the practice exams. You now know the process from walking into the exam room, to regulating bathroom breaks, to time management, to working with a pencil and paper scan-tron as opposed to electronic clicking on the practice exams.

You have your last bunch of studying to work off. You do not have to study your strong areas of knowledge again. You can focus on your weak ones. 

the difference between you (unsuccessful) and me (successful) could be as little as 1 question, and is unlikely to be more than 10-15 questions. You just need to figure out what went wrong, and deal with that issue, while improving your knowledge of your weak areas, managing your time better (if needed), etc.

Come back when you have passed and tell us, OK? 🙂

Edited August 31, 2024 by SNAILS

[Blahblah]

@SNAILS I am genuinely touched by the time and detail of your response. I will keep it brief, but thank you from the bottom of my anxiety-riddled heart. ♥️ I’ll be back 💪🏽