For those that did a semester abroad during law school, how was it?

[GGrievous]

I'm strongly considering applying (assuming no covid restrictions next year of course). It may be my last opportunity to live in a different country and experience a different culture in a way that vacationing there could never provide. I'm obviously concerned about cost, and if that cost is worth it beyond just the experience of being abroad but in actually enriching my legal education. Some of the questions I have: How much did your semester cost abroad compared to your semester home? What were your accommodations like? Did you have much time to explore? What was your typical week like? Would you recommend it? 

[GGrievous]

I also get the feeling that most students don’t do this, and I can understand why that might be. 

[erin otoole]

You shouldn't be concerned about this until you get articles. No articles means you need to be applying and studying more. 

Law school hasn't started yet there are more important things to be worried about. 

[BlockedQuebecois]

19 minutes ago, erin otoole said:

You shouldn't be concerned about this until you get articles. No articles means you need to be applying and studying more. 

Law school hasn't started yet there are more important things to be worried about. 

You really should stop telling people that their questions are premature. You did it in the thread about litigation as well, and both times I've found it bizarre. There are plenty of reasons OP may be asking now, and it's not like its an inappropriate question. If they're going to Osgoode or a school with Osgoode-like programs, they may need to know whether they want to go abroad as early as January. 

OP, I don't know what school you're going to, and I think the exchange culture varies school-to-school. At Osgoode, a good portion of my class went on exchange in 3L. Another good portion went abroad on internships during either their 1L summer or 2L winer term. 

If you're simply going on exchange, most people choose to do so in first semester of 3L. By then a majority of the class has an articling gig lined up, and going first semester means you get to be involved with the various graduation events at Osgoode. Osgoode has a very extensive exchange school network, so most people got to go somewhere they were really interested in. Osgoode also offers the opportunity to go abroad through sponsored internships during your 1L or 2L summer or through the International and Transnational Law Intensive Program (ITLIP). Placements through ITLIP tend to be during second semester of law school, with students generally preferring to take the intensive during 2L. 

Outside of that Osgoode specific information, I don't think I can be much help as I didn't go on exchange. Everyone I know that went on exchange absolutely loved it. They definitely had time to explore (those on European exchanges, in particular), but I can't speak to their typical week or their housing situation. Honestly, not going on exchange was probably my biggest regret in law school, so I would encourage you to pursue it if it interests you. 

[GGrievous]

*confused emoji*

edit: to clarify this confusion was regarding getting an article before worrying about a 2L exchange

Edited August 19, 2021 by Barry

[123]

1 hour ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

You really should stop telling people that their questions are premature. You did it in the thread about litigation as well, and both times I've found it bizarre. There are plenty of reasons OP may be asking now, and it's not like its an inappropriate question.

He’s conservative leader Erin O’Toole. It’s basically his job to stop people from thinking about the future!

(Just trying to get a five page debate on my intelligence, and I’ve heard this is the way)

[Pendragon]

A lot of people go on exchange and I can tell you that it is a waste of time if you are doing it for some kind of enriching legal experience. It's basically like going on vacation and getting easy credits while doing so. I have friends that opted not to go on exchange to take relevant coursework in their field of interest, and to pursue intensives, clinics, pro bono projects, etc. which enriched their profiles in more meaningful aspects. 

Most of the people that go on exchange not only have articles lined up, but are Biglaw folks as well, so it is fine for them to take a semester off to travel and go on vacation. I don't know a lot of people that were gunning for other areas of law that went on exchange, as they chose to invest that time into relevant courses and clinics instead. A lot of employers outside of Biglaw also wait until you are closer to graduation to hire articling students. So, I would figure out what you want to do first, before deciding whether an exchange is worth it for you. It's a good vacation but won't add anything meaningful to your legal education.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Pendragon

[GGrievous]

3 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

A lot of people go on exchange and I can tell you that it is a waste of time if you are doing it for some kind of enriching legal experience. It's basically like going on vacation and getting easy credits while doing so. I have friends that opted not to go on exchange to take relevant coursework in their field of interest, and to pursue intensives, clinics, pro bono projects, etc. which enriched their profiles in more meaningful aspects. 

Most of the people that go on exchange not only have articles lined up, but are Biglaw folks as well, so it is fine for them to take a semester off to travel and go on vacation. I don't know a lot of people that were gunning for other areas of law that went on exchange, as they chose to invest that time into relevant courses and clinics instead. A lot of employers outside of Biglaw also wait until you are closer to graduation to hire articling students. So, I would figure out what you want to do first, before deciding whether an exchange is worth it for you. It's a good vacation but won't add anything meaningful to your legal education.

 I think in addition to financial reasons, “wasting” time not focusing on valuable legal stuff you mentioned would probably make me feel guilty for going. I guess I’ll see how it goes when the time comes, and see what else I get myself involved in, and if it’s worth abandoning. 

 

[Psychometronic]

To add to what’s already been mentioned, you might want to check what you can take if you plan on going on exchange. For example, at UBC, you can’t go on exchange if you do a full term clinic (15 credits).

People who did exchange in the 2nd semester of 3L also graduated later than everyone else (in the Fall, I think) which may or may not matter to some people. 

[BlockedQuebecois]

Law school writ large is a waste of time (yes, even for non-big law types). Don’t feel guilty because you’re wasting time somewhere cool. 

That calculus changes if you can’t do a clinic though, which is a dumb rule but c’est la vie. 

Edited August 19, 2021 by BlockedQuebecois

[GGrievous]

This thread is like that trope with an angel and devil on each of my shoulders.

[Rashabon]

I didn’t go away for a variety of reasons but if I could go back I’d go on exchange. By 3L you’re mostly taking courses out of interest, to fulfill a requirement or to gain a smidge of additional knowledge in an area of practice. None of that is super compelling compared to a semester abroad. The folks I know that did it all loved it (my recollection isn’t that most were in big law).

[GGrievous]

Maybe @erin otoole had the best advice after all. I'll wait it out and make sure my career trajectory is set the best I can then I'll worry about it. Though I wasn't looking to commit today, just kind of wanted to hear some fun travel stories. 

 

[OntheVerge]

I did a semester abroad in 2L and it was great. The other three people I know who did a similar thing both loved it, as well. Of those four, two people had articling lined up for 3L and two didn't. I don't think you need to be worried about only doing a semester abroad IF you've already gotten articling. Law school is such a grind anyway, why not do what you can to enjoy it? I got a cool thing to put on my CV that came up in interviews down the road but the best part was being in a different country for 6 months, meeting new friends, getting legal experience in a whole new setting, and traveling around every weekend. It was the best part of my law school experience and I have zero regrets going. If you can swing it financially and logistically, go for it. 

[abogada]

I did an exchange and have no regrets. Experiencing living in a different country, especially one that is so different from where you come from, is a very enriching and rewarding experience. I have travelled a lot, but it is different than living somewhere for 4 months and having to adjust to a different culture. 

Re the costs, the exchange program arrangement is that you pay your tuition to your "home" university and not directly to the foreign school. So tuition is the same. The city where I was living had comparable living costs (e.g. rent, food) and I subletted my place at home. The extra expenses were for flights there and travel expenses while I was there but depending on where you go you may be able to do that cheaply. i.e. if you are in the EU there are a ton of student discounts and most museums/art galleries are free!  

The program was way easier than my law school in Canada, because where I was on exchange, law is an undergrad degree. That did mean I was older than most of the other exchange students, but no big deal. I know people say you don't learn a lot, but I did learn a lot about international law and had some awesome profs, which I would not have been exposed to at my home school. 

I know I just said no regrets, but the one thing you need to think about is if you want to do other clinical programs. Exchange terms are pass/fail so your grades there don't factor into your GPA. If you do a clinic term, it is similarly pass/fail. My school didn't let you do both and exchange term and a clinical term. That said, there are some clinics that are only one course credit an not an entire term.

[OntheVerge]

18 hours ago, abogada said:

I did an exchange and have no regrets. Experiencing living in a different country, especially one that is so different from where you come from, is a very enriching and rewarding experience. I have travelled a lot, but it is different than living somewhere for 4 months and having to adjust to a different culture. 

Re the costs, the exchange program arrangement is that you pay your tuition to your "home" university and not directly to the foreign school. So tuition is the same. The city where I was living had comparable living costs (e.g. rent, food) and I subletted my place at home. The extra expenses were for flights there and travel expenses while I was there but depending on where you go you may be able to do that cheaply. i.e. if you are in the EU there are a ton of student discounts and most museums/art galleries are free!  

The program was way easier than my law school in Canada, because where I was on exchange, law is an undergrad degree. That did mean I was older than most of the other exchange students, but no big deal. I know people say you don't learn a lot, but I did learn a lot about international law and had some awesome profs, which I would not have been exposed to at my home school. 

I know I just said no regrets, but the one thing you need to think about is if you want to do other clinical programs. Exchange terms are pass/fail so your grades there don't factor into your GPA. If you do a clinic term, it is similarly pass/fail. My school didn't let you do both and exchange term and a clinical term. That said, there are some clinics that are only one course credit an not an entire term.

Just an addendum, the pass/fail might be school specific. Mine was graded, as was the other people I know who did (different programs, same school). In my case, this bumped my GPA up since the grades counted towards my school's transcripts. Just an FYI for the OP. 

[abogada]

21 hours ago, OntheVerge said:

Just an addendum, the pass/fail might be school specific. Mine was graded, as was the other people I know who did (different programs, same school). In my case, this bumped my GPA up since the grades counted towards my school's transcripts. Just an FYI for the OP. 

Oh good to know! I was at UVic and exchanges were all pass/fail. 

[CleanHands]

4 minutes ago, abogada said:

Oh good to know! I was at UVic and exchanges were all pass/fail. 

Similarly at UBC exchange courses are "pass/fail" for the purpose of calculating one's GPA for the JD program. However the exchange schools did provide grades that would still be visible on transcripts if one were to apply to other academic programs in the future.