Need help with clothes/ attire

[wookiewithawoodie]

Hello all, I am an incoming 1L at an Ontario school. I have never owned any formal clothes, whenever I needed, I just borrowed from an older friend. I am considering doing a moot. What kind of clothes would one recommend I buy? Full suit and dress shoes? Just dress pants and a shirt? and business casual clothes?

[SNAILS]

The dress code for 1L moots is not super strict. However, you will need to buy a proper suit eventually. 

I define proper suit as a full suit fitted to your size, dress shirt, tie and dress shoes. You will want more than 1 shirt and tie. I think a single suit with multiple shirts and ties could carry you through articling all the way to being called to the bar. 

If you want to spend less in the short term, just get dress pants, shirt, tie and conservative shoes such as pure black loafers. You can put together this outfit MUCH cheaper than the option above.

I do not recommend appearing at a moot without a tie if you are a man. "Business Casual" has it's place, but is not appropriate when giving oral submissions (though standards are relaxed in a 1L moot to make the jacket not mandatory and shoes need not be formal dress shoes - though no running shoes!), and not when meeting with clients in a business environment. I define business casual as dress pants without jacket where the dress shirt is worn with the top button undone and without a tie.

Borrowed suits can be fine, but get honest opinions on whether that suit actually fits and looks good.

My articling wardrobe was perhaps $2000 total and includes: black suit, grey suit, 12 dress shirts, 12 ties, formal black dress shoes, tie clip, watch. I began building this wardrobe in 1L with a suit and a couple of shirts and ties.

Edited July 28, 2024 by SNAILS

[wookiewithawoodie]

8 hours ago, SNAILS said:

The dress code for 1L moots is not super strict. However, you will need to buy a proper suit eventually. 

I define proper suit as a full suit fitted to your size, dress shirt, tie and dress shoes. You will want more than 1 shirt and tie. I think a single suit with multiple shirts and ties could carry you through articling all the way to being called to the bar. 

If you want to spend less in the short term, just get dress pants, shirt, tie and conservative shoes such as pure black loafers. You can put together this outfit MUCH cheaper than the option above.

I do not recommend appearing at a moot without a tie if you are a man. "Business Casual" has it's place, but is not appropriate when giving oral submissions (though standards are relaxed in a 1L moot to make the jacket not mandatory and shoes need not be formal dress shoes - though no running shoes!), and not when meeting with clients in a business environment. I define business casual as dress pants without jacket where the dress shirt is worn with the top button undone and without a tie.

Borrowed suits can be fine, but get honest opinions on whether that suit actually fits and looks good.

My articling wardrobe was perhaps $2000 total and includes: black suit, grey suit, 12 dress shirts, 12 ties, formal black dress shoes, tie clip, watch. I began building this wardrobe in 1L with a suit and a couple of shirts and ties.

Thank you! I appreciate your help. I'm also thinking broader for networking, interviews/ events. Should I go with a basic black suit and a white shirt for my first one? 

[LMP]

You shouldn't get a black suit. Navy or charcoal.

[SNAILS]

Also consider how easy it is to clean your formal clothing. You will eventually get coffee and Chinese food on it. This applies more to after law school than during law school, since a suit will probably become your day-to-day clothes.

My shirt choices are every colour of the rainbow: light blue, dark blue, red, various subtle patterns. I think corporate environments are a bit more conservative (solid coloured, light dress shirts) whereas things like criminal defence work can be more creative.

[MyWifesBoyfriend]

2 hours ago, SNAILS said:

Also consider how easy it is to clean your formal clothing. You will eventually get coffee and Chinese food on it.

Been working in business casual offices for a bit, and I find that Uniqlo dress pants are the best bang-for-buck. Cheap, and the material is very cleanable (with the obvious caveats above, business casual isn't for everything). 

Edited July 29, 2024 by MyWifesBoyfriend

[BlockedQuebecois]

On 7/28/2024 at 12:03 PM, SNAILS said:

If you want to spend less in the short term, just get dress pants, shirt, tie and conservative shoes such as pure black loafers. You can put together this outfit MUCH cheaper than the option above.

This is a penny-wise, pound-foolish approach to building a professional wardrobe. 

Law students should invest in a suit and decent dress shoes. They are not terribly expensive in the context of PSLOCs and law school tuition, and they will be necessary for various networking events, moots, interviews, etc. throughout law school. 

Also, please don't buy red dress shirts. 

[BHC1]

You may get to a point where you can do whatever depending on what you end up practicing. One of the top legal aid billers at my local courthouse doesn’t even tuck in their wrinkled dress shirts anymore. 

However, starting out, you should probably purchase at least 1 decent suit. 

This topic is one of the more helpful things on this forum: Suits

Hedgis’ posts there in particular are worth a read. 

[canuckfanatic]

I strongly recommend Suit Supply for your first suit, if you have a store near you to get measured. You can also find 100% wool suits from Banana Republic for under $500 if you keep track of their sales. Regardless of what you buy, get it tailored.

For the past ~5 years in office settings I've been wearing Lululemon pants (one navy pair, one grey pair) and Uniqlo oxford shirts. 

[Lawstudents20202020]

Historically I've had good luck with indochino for suits under 500, although I'd recommend getting measured in store and planning to have them do some alterations.

[canuckfanatic]

37 minutes ago, Lawstudents20202020 said:

I'd recommend getting measured in store and planning to have them do some alterations.

I got one suit from Indochino and this is why I refuse to go back. If I get measured in store, I shouldn't have to get it tailored again when it arrives! I had a pair of pants arrive at least 4 sizes too big, despite being measured and having the pants supposedly made to order.

[GameofAllard]

4 minutes ago, canuckfanatic said:

I got one suit from Indochino and this is why I refuse to go back. If I get measured in store, I shouldn't have to get it tailored again when it arrives! I had a pair of pants arrive at least 4 sizes too big, despite being measured and having the pants supposedly made to order.

I second the Indochino caution. I got a suit from them before 1L and the jacket was good but the pants were not. I would keep an eye on Moores and Harry Rosen for sales.

[Vizslaw]

You can definitely get suits for under $500 at Tom's Place in Kensington Market. They often have good sales on dress shirts, ties, and do in-house tailoring for relatively low prices. They also have the more expensive lineup upstairs, so they are good for low/high budgets alike!

[GoatDuck]

I did not like the quality at Tom’s Place. In that price range, you'd get better fit and better wool at Spier & Mackay. 

[Mal]

A professional shouldn't have a "rainbow" of colorful shirts. Start with shirts low in color saturation (intensity) which means avoid red, dark blue, black. 

Tom's Place has too much variance in quality and style, Spier and Mackay is easier to end up with something that is going to be good. 

[LegalArmada]

I have never once gone to a Moore's (and I've been several times) and felt I was getting a decent product. Not once have I been there and felt their staff have a clue about recommendations. Perhaps just bad luck? 

A good suit will last a long time -- especially if you take care of it. 

You're going to law school. This is a great time to put some money into a really nice, versatile suit that you'll feel good wearing when you take it to interviews, perhaps recruitment events, or court. A nice navy suit is perfect for all of those occasions and more (also great for weddings). I'm not saying go spend $2000, but there are fantastic suits for half that price that look great and can make you feel very confident in your appearance. 

Regardless of how much money you spend, I agree that you absolutely must have it tailored. Some nicer stores might give you a deal on the tailoring if you buy a suit from them. If you're going to only buy one pair of shoes, brown is the way to go. Way nicer than black, in my view. You can get black shoes for your bar call in a few years or if the need for them arises sooner. 

I completely agree with @Mal. Stick to white and light blue. 

 

 

 

[BlockedQuebecois]

25 minutes ago, LegalArmada said:

If you're going to only buy one pair of shoes, brown is the way to go. Way nicer than black, in my view.

Black shoes are more versatile and it is significantly harder to fuck them up, so I don't think this is good advice for someone looking to start building out a professional wardrobe. Most young men who wear brown shoes tend to get shoes that are too light to go with the traditional navy/charcoal business suit, and so you end up with shoes that draw the eye downward, whereas a suit is meant to draw your eyes upwards. See e.g. this picture. 

[WhoKnows]

55 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Black shoes are more versatile and it is significantly harder to fuck them up, so I don't think this is good advice for someone looking to start building out a professional wardrobe. Most young men who wear brown shoes tend to get shoes that are too light to go with the traditional navy/charcoal business suit, and so you end up with shoes that draw the eye downward, whereas a suit is meant to draw your eyes upwards. See e.g. this picture. 

They're also a casualizing element, and IMO not totally fit for the more formal side of business attire. 

In my view, OP, if I had to go back and do it again and start over, here's what I would buy: 

- A two piece worsted navy suit, with a minimum of super 120s wool. I would suggest going off the rack and then taking them to a tailor. If at all possible and seperates are available, buy two pairs of the trousers. I'd also suggest a fuller, more classic cut. 

- Three dress shirts, one white, one light blue, and one light pink or lilac. My preference is lilac. If you're going to go made to measure or custom on anything, skip the suit and go to the shirts, instead. 

- Two ties. One a solid grenadine, another a rep stripe. I'd go navy for versatility, but burgundy or forrest green work as well. 

- A good black leather belt (my personal preference is suspenders or side tabs, but belt loops are most common place)

- A splurge on a pair of black, goodyear welted oxford dress shoes. Meermin is a brand I often point to. 

All this should be somewhere around 2 grand total, and will easily get you through all of law school and articling, especially if you work in a business casual office and don't need to wear a suit often. You could also start with 2 shirts and one tie to save some cash. 

[SNAILS]

A few more thoughts:

• You don't have to get it all in 1L, but start thinking ahead about what future purchases will complement present purchases.
• Be realistic with yourself about what body size you will be in 3 years. If you are 22 years old in great shape, think about what sitting at a desk might do to you.
• On the topic of brighter shirt colours, it's very much a style choice. I can see "Big Law" not wanting their students and associates in red, dark blue, etc shirts. In smaller firms, you'll see some creativity, and sometimes a slightly adventurous tie.  Also consider how a shirt/tie combination goes with the suit.
• If you know the TV shows "Suits" (business attire) and "Better Call Saul" (more creative) you'll have an idea what I mean by the above.

[BlockedQuebecois]

Red dress shirts are a style choice in the way that crocs with a suit are a style choice. 

[Phaedrus]

On 7/29/2024 at 8:11 AM, SNAILS said:

I think corporate environments are a bit more conservative (solid coloured, light dress shirts) whereas things like criminal defence work can be more creative.

Examples of defence bar "creativity" I've observed include: black cargo pants, black velcro Sketchers, corduroy jacket with pink shirt and lime green tie, dark blue jeans, and every kind of mismatched jacket/shirt/tie/pants combo you can imagine. Most of these fashion crimes are committed by the senior bar, too.  

[canuckfanatic]

41 minutes ago, Phaedrus said:

Examples of defence bar "creativity" I've observed include: black cargo pants, black velcro Sketchers, corduroy jacket with pink shirt and lime green tie, dark blue jeans, and every kind of mismatched jacket/shirt/tie/pants combo you can imagine. Most of these fashion crimes are committed by the senior bar, too.  

[Psychometronic]

Don't get anything too expensive in law school in case you gain weight. 

[BHC1]

9 hours ago, Psychometronic said:

Don't get anything too expensive in law school in case you gain weight. 

I don’t fit my first waistcoat anymore. Middle age is a *itch.

[noname12]

Kijiji has many suits for sale. I wore suits for my last career, but I bought two suits (I lost weight), and a pair of banana republic khakis for $100 last year. Everything looks brand new.