Only applying to UofT and Osgoode - Chances?

[doingitforthechocolatebars]

First degree (science): 2013-2017

* 10 courses per year
* CGPA 2.3 (domestic abuse and the school was hours away from my family, so i had little support)

Second degree (nursing): 2017-2021

* 9 courses per year (not sure if B2/B3 are limited to years with 10 courses)
* CGPA 3.5 (relative had significant health issues during my second year)
* B3 3.72
* B2 3.81

Softs (past 4 years): leading a university science competition team, multiple research publication and conferences, previously ministerial assistant, currently working as a decision maker for small court claims

LSAT November (pending)

* 156 blind diagnostic

I looked at the past accepted/rejected stats on this forum for UofT and Osgoode but they seem unpredictable (some people with let’s say 3.7 GPA rejected while others accepted).

I’d like to practice in Toronto (gov/public or corporate law) and also stay in Toronto (financial reasons).

Any suggestions on which schools I might have a chance at, and if I have a chance at UofT, Osgoode, or (maybe uOttawa)?

Edited August 23 by doingitforthechocolatebars

[soundofconfusion]

U of T says they look at your best 3 years, and they kind of do, but they will consider the rest of your academic history as well. They don't have a great rep for looking past low GPAs--I might not apply in your shoes, pretty much no matter the LSAT I got, but I suppose there's nothing to lose by trying. People have gotten into Oz with incredibly low GPAs, and it sounds like you have compelling reasons for the GPA, but everything else about your profile will (likely) need to be great-to-amazing (it sounds like your experiences probably qualify; focus on writing good PSes etc). Your LSAT is going to be really really important here--you need to put a lot of work into it, and no one can chance you properly, especially on something like this, without a final score. You should also apply to TMU, if you need to stay in Toronto.

I would apply all over the country, at least at more holistic schools. If you apply narrowly, you will likely be disappointed (frankly, even applying broadly with a great LSAT, you could well end up out of luck).  UWindsor, UCalgary, UNB, USask, UMan, TRU, Ottawa, Lakehead, Moncton (if you speak French), Dal, Western, Queen's, maybe UVic (they are fairly holistic but, like Oz, they're still pretty picky). Good luck on the LSAT; hope you kill it and get in somewhere.

Edited August 23 by soundofconfusion

[luckycharm]

On 8/23/2024 at 1:16 PM, doingitforthechocolatebars said:

First degree (science): 2013-2017

* 10 courses per year
* CGPA 2.3 (domestic abuse and the school was hours away from my family, so i had little support)

Second degree (nursing): 2017-2021

* 9 courses per year (not sure if B2/B3 are limited to years with 10 courses)
* CGPA 3.5 (relative had significant health issues during my second year)
* B3 3.72
* B2 3.81

Softs (past 4 years): leading a university science competition team, multiple research publication and conferences, previously ministerial assistant, currently working as a decision maker for small court claims

LSAT November (pending)

* 156 blind diagnostic

I looked at the past accepted/rejected stats on this forum for UofT and Osgoode but they seem unpredictable (some people with let’s say 3.7 GPA rejected while others accepted).

I’d like to practice in Toronto (gov/public or corporate law) and also stay in Toronto (financial reasons).

Any suggestions on which schools I might have a chance at, and if I have a chance at UofT, Osgoode, or (maybe uOttawa)?

You should check if those schools consider your second degree.

[SNAILS]

Echoing what @soundofconfusion said. 

First of all "156 blind diagnostic" means nothing. Do some studying, and do several practice tests to get a realistic idea of what you would score on a real LSAT. You will not be able to measure your chances very well until you actually write a real LSAT.

Second of all, applying to U of T and Oz only is just silly under your circumstances. I respect you want to stay in Toronto and (apparently) don't want to go to TMU because it is, truly, not as reputable or prestigious a school. But you need to make a choice. Do you want to go to law school badly enough that you will apply broadly, and leave Toronto if needed or not? 

I get that you want to stay in Toronto for financial reasons. perhaps you live with family or have your own place, thus saving on rent. Tuitions for law school in Toronto are the highest in Canada. Consider whether you can afford to move to Ottawa, or London, or Windsor. Most law students qualify for a very large line of credit (~$100K) and this should be sufficient to get you through law school if you live frugally. You should be able to earn this money back as a lawyer.

On the other hand, if your interest in making money outweighs your love of the law, I'm not sure why you don't just work as a nurse, which can be quite lucrative?

Your softs are a factor, but only a very small one. You appear to be a quisi-mature student. You have been in post secondary education 8 years. You have not told us about any significant work experience, and the extra-curricular activity you listed is about the average one would expect (in other words, the other quisi-mature students will have as much or more extracurriculars / softs).

My advice is to cross U of T off your list until you get 170 or better on a real LSAT. If you don't get at least a 160, you have a slim chance at Oz (and most other law schools). Keep studying and apply to law school next year.

You are a non-typical law school candidate. The typical candidate has a single degree and bases their application on a cGPA/LSAT above the threshold. These typical candidates can sooner afford to apply narrowly. You need to apply broadly. If you apply to 6-10 schools, there is a greater chance that one of them will weight your softs and special circumstances especially heavily and offer you admission.

Edited August 31 by SNAILS

[CB2021]

UofT/OsGOODE OR BUST!!!

[StoneMason]

This is a very bad idea for your stats/background. Even if UofT/Osgoode were to ignore your first cGPA (unclear they would), your second GPA is still significantly lower than their medians (even B3 is significantly lower). Unless you are genuinely comfortable not pursuing law, which would be a likely outcome if you apply only to UofT/Osgoode, you should seriously consider other schools. 

All of this assumes even a median LSAT score (167-168 for UofT if I recall correctly). Your blind diagnostic doesn't really tell us much, to be honest. What are you PTing at right now?

Edited Monday at 05:37 PM by StoneMason

[MyWifesBoyfriend]

3 hours ago, StoneMason said:

Even if UofT/Osgoode were to ignore your first cGPA (unclear they would)

This is the crux of the issue. Without even considering stats, there is already enough uncertainty bound up with applying to two of the most selective schools in Canada. While not common, there are instances of people with perfectly good stats still being rejected. Adding in the element of a bad cGPA from your first degree further adds to this uncertainty. 

Your best bet is to apply broadly. Who knows, maybe you will be pleasantly surprised?

Also @soundofconfusion is correct in stating that U of T will still weigh your cGPA. I am skeptical as to how much emphasis is really put on B3. If you peruse the rejected threads, there are plenty of high U of T B3s that had their application binned. 

Edited Monday at 08:39 PM by MyWifesBoyfriend

[Scrantonicity2]

I'd recommend applying to Lincoln Alexander. It's new, and there have undoubtedly been bumps in the road, but there are some great profs, I know of a handful of really smart people there, and its in Toronto (which seems to be very important to you). I don't know about their corporate placements, but I don't see any reason why you couldn't land a gov/public law job from there (I know there were issues this year, but those were specific to the letter, which shouldn't be an issue when OP is job hunting).