How busy are Big Law Lawyers actually?

[kingcor123]

Particularly M&A/Capital Markets lawyers (which I understand are the largest practice groups). 

I have tried to sus this out during Coffee Chats, however I usually only get surface level answer (i.e. "we are REALLY busy", or "we have highs and lows"). While I definitely understand what they are talking about, I want to know what this REALLY means - especially since I potentially have to make a decision about whether I want this life soon, with interview week around the corner. Also, more than a handful of times during my coffee chats, I get one or two partners saying "yeah I still have time for video games"...and I wonder how to fit this into the "Big Law is the most fast paced thing you will ever do in your entire life, many try but few stay past 2 years" vibe I also get. 

I am usually too scared to pry to much into the "how much do you work" topic during coffee chats, because it may look like I am getting scared off by the amount of work common to all Big Law firms (I'm not).

So my questions are:

• Do you get to workout every day in Big Law? What does that workout consist of (i.e. do you get 1 hour in the gym? Or do you consider putting your desk in "standing mode" your workout for the day?)? 
• I am aware that the large salaries of biglaw come with the implicit/explicit requirement that you be responsive 24/7. But I am wondering - how often does this entail that you actually have to power on your laptop at 11 PM, or even 1 AM or later - because you got an email saying that your boss needs something on their desk ASAP/by 8 AM that morning? How often have you had to essentially lose an ENTIRE weekend because of work (not just a couple hours on Saturday and Sunday)? How often have you ACTUALLY put in an all nighter in the office? 
• How do biglaw teams usually handle one of their associates going through a personal emergencies? (i.e. what if one of my parents die during a major deal? Will I be allowed to travel home for at least 1 week without getting major shit? Or what if I get a text one day that my wife is delivering?). Obviously I imagine this is firm specific or even group specific - but I am wondering what the general consensus is surrounding things like this. 

[LMP]

I can't speak to corporate law but can give my own schedule for reference.

On average I bill a bit over 200 hours a month. I typically do 5-10 hours on weekends. This weekend was a bit over but that was due to an assignment I got on Saturday. 

On days I work from home I have a good amount of time in my schedule for hobbies or leisure activities. 

On days I commute (I have a longer than normal commute) I have no time for anything. 

I've rarely had to do all nighters, these can be avoided through planning for the most part. 

I find that if emergencies arise you can figure a way out, generally someone can fill in for you. But there are some situations where you really just have to make it work (from a litigation context, can't speak to the other side). 

I very rarely get explicit instructions to do a task on a weekend or overnight, but the volume of work sometimes makes that a reality all the same. 

[C_Terror]

11 hours ago, LMP said:

I can't speak to corporate law but can give my own schedule for reference.

On average I bill a bit over 200 hours a month. I typically do 5-10 hours on weekends. This weekend was a bit over but that was due to an assignment I got on Saturday.

On days I work from home I have a good amount of time in my schedule for hobbies or leisure activities.

On days I commute (I have a longer than normal commute) I have no time for anything.

I've rarely had to do all nighters, these can be avoided through planning for the most part.

I find that if emergencies arise you can figure a way out, generally someone can fill in for you. But there are some situations where you really just have to make it work (from a litigation context, can't speak to the other side).

I very rarely get explicit instructions to do a task on a weekend or overnight, but the volume of work sometimes makes that a reality all the same.

What year are you? An average of over 200 hours a month is way beyond what a significant majority of associates bill (even in NY unless you're Cravath, Wachtell, Quinn or Susman), unless they're in their last few years making a case for partnership. 

[LMP]

49 minutes ago, C_Terror said:

What year are you? An average of over 200 hours a month is way beyond what a significant majority of associates bill (even in NY unless you're Cravath, Wachtell, Quinn or Susman), unless they're in their last few years making a case for partnership. 

Articling. Again, not trying to speak to what is standard or make any points on the hours themselves. 

I'm merely speaking to OPs question on what amount of free time you have given a certian amount of hours. 

[chaboywb]

There are variations between firms, groups and even practice specialties within groups. Over 200+ billed is considered exceptional and a very busy month among my corporate peers and me. It happens but it's not the norm. Articling is also its own beast - I recall research memos for litigation matters that had me working late nights and weekends on a niche point and a lot of my time likely got written off in the end.

Quote

Do you get to workout every day in Big Law? What does that workout consist of (i.e. do you get 1 hour in the gym? Or do you consider putting your desk in "standing mode" your workout for the day?)?

No - but I'm just lazy. Regular workout schedules are common among lawyers I work with. 

Quote

I am aware that the large salaries of biglaw come with the implicit/explicit requirement that you be responsive 24/7. But I am wondering - how often does this entail that you actually have to power on your laptop at 11 PM, or even 1 AM or later - because you got an email saying that your boss needs something on their desk ASAP/by 8 AM that morning? How often have you had to essentially lose an ENTIRE weekend because of work (not just a couple hours on Saturday and Sunday)? How often have you ACTUALLY put in an all nighter in the office?

All nighter in the office? It has happened a few times. Entire weekend lost because of work? Once every couple months - that doesn't mean working 24/7, but certainly putting in a full 8 hours on both Saturday and Sunday. Email at 11pm demanding something for 8am? Sure, in the context of an active deal where your team is online and working toward close. Entirely random email at 11pm demanding something for 8am? Never. It's only happened in the context of an active matter where it is expected that there will be requests with a tight turnaround. An out-of-the-blue emergency requiring overnight work almost certainly means terrible practice management by the assigning partner and I've been fortunate not to experience that.

Quote

How do biglaw teams usually handle one of their associates going through a personal emergencies? (i.e. what if one of my parents die during a major deal? Will I be allowed to travel home for at least 1 week without getting major shit? Or what if I get a text one day that my wife is delivering?). Obviously I imagine this is firm specific or even group specific - but I am wondering what the general consensus is surrounding things like this.

For the love of God, no, you will not get shit for taking time to grieve a parent or your wife delivering. Life and emergencies happen. You may need to give a quick status update or assist the supervising partner in finding someone to cover you, but that's ultimately their responsibility. The only time you might get in shit for something like this is if you go MIA without informing anyone of the emergency.

[C_Terror]

1 hour ago, LMP said:

Articling. Again, not trying to speak to what is standard or make any points on the hours themselves.

I'm merely speaking to OPs question on what amount of free time you have given a certian amount of hours.

Makes sense. Articling sucks. Good luck. Pressure of hireback and hours will go way down once you become an associate. It's still stressful and sucky, but in a different way.

[Rashabon]

55 minutes ago, chaboywb said:

There are variations between firms, groups and even practice specialties within groups. Over 200+ billed is considered exceptional and a very busy month among my corporate peers and me. It happens but it's not the norm. Articling is also its own beast - I recall research memos for litigation matters that had me working late nights and weekends on a niche point and a lot of my time likely got written off in the end.

No - but I'm just lazy. Regular workout schedules are common among lawyers I work with. 

All nighter in the office? It has happened a few times. Entire weekend lost because of work? Once every couple months - that doesn't mean working 24/7, but certainly putting in a full 8 hours on both Saturday and Sunday. Email at 11pm demanding something for 8am? Sure, in the context of an active deal where your team is online and working toward close. Entirely random email at 11pm demanding something for 8am? Never. It's only happened in the context of an active matter where it is expected that there will be requests with a tight turnaround. An out-of-the-blue emergency requiring overnight work almost certainly means terrible practice management by the assigning partner and I've been fortunate not to experience that.

For the love of God, no, you will not get shit for taking time to grieve a parent or your wife delivering. Life and emergencies happen. You may need to give a quick status update or assist the supervising partner in finding someone to cover you, but that's ultimately their responsibility. The only time you might get in shit for something like this is if you go MIA without informing anyone of the emergency.

I agree with all these. I could go to the gym every day if I wanted to, but I play video games with my wife for hours most nights and I also have time to drive her to and from her job, which makes early morning or after work workouts tough. Even still I can probably make time at lunch. The hours were tougher earlier on but as you get more senior you have more visibility into the hours and more control over your schedule overall (though not always, since now you own the files instead of owning small pieces of it).

I haven't had an all nighter in the office in years, but I have pulled a couple in the last year or two. Usually if too many files end up needing things at the same time out of just bad luck with the calendar. Things move more efficiently and faster in the corporate world than they used to so there's less need for all nighters than in the past. Random emails at 11 pm for a next morning turnaround never happen outside a deal context. That's investment banking. 

Yeah you'll lose some weekend time, but it depends on the deals you're on. I've spent more effort keeping my weekends free the last year, but sometimes I need to work to catch up or sometimes I just push stuff to the weekend so I can have an easier week or a more relaxed night.

There is always time for emergencies, you just need to communicate. If you don't let anyone know, not only can they not help take the workload off your plate, they have no clue what is going on and won't just assume an emergency came up (because unfortunately there are associates who shit the bed and just don't do the work sometimes out of laziness or poor organization and management).

[BlockedQuebecois]

3 hours ago, chaboywb said:

For the love of God, no, you will not get shit for taking time to grieve […] your wife delivering.

I expect firms would be quite sympathetic to this, given they’ll be grieving the related decline in productivity. 

[wine for lunch]

On 10/28/2024 at 10:00 PM, LMP said:

I can't speak to corporate law but can give my own schedule for reference.

On average I bill a bit over 200 hours a month. I typically do 5-10 hours on weekends. This weekend was a bit over but that was due to an assignment I got on Saturday. 

On days I work from home I have a good amount of time in my schedule for hobbies or leisure activities. 

On days I commute (I have a longer than normal commute) I have no time for anything. 

I've rarely had to do all nighters, these can be avoided through planning for the most part. 

I find that if emergencies arise you can figure a way out, generally someone can fill in for you. But there are some situations where you really just have to make it work (from a litigation context, can't speak to the other side). 

I very rarely get explicit instructions to do a task on a weekend or overnight, but the volume of work sometimes makes that a reality all the same. 

I'm trying to do the math, unless you're very good at converting your work hours into billable hours (which I'm admittedly still struggling with), I'm curious how you manage to fit in time for yourself with 200 hours of billables in a month. 

[LMP]

11 minutes ago, wine for lunch said:

I'm trying to do the math, unless you're very good at converting your work hours into billable hours (which I'm admittedly still struggling with), I'm curious how you manage to fit in time for yourself with 200 hours of billables in a month. 

I don't do very much non-billable work and I don't get written down very much. 

I also work weekends, though not full days. 

Also helps that a lot of my time is very easy to bill. Trial and trial prep, oral motions, settlement confrences, client calls.