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Lateralling from Ottawa to Toronto?


equilibrium

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equilibrium
  • Law Student

I am currently doing the Ottawa IP recruit with full-service national firms. The offer day (Oct 31) is before my Toronto in-firms. Still unsure whether I'll get a call on Oct 31. However, Ottawa offices only give me two hours to consider the offer, so I'd like to prepare myself for any eventuality. Is it worth going to Ottawa if I am interested in IP but also interested in returning to Toronto? Does anyone know what it is like to lateral back from Ottawa to Toronto after articles? How feasible is it?

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notterrible
  • Law Student

Not my personal experience, but I know of a student at UofT who was successful in the Ottawa IP recruit (albeit as a 1L) and who then went on to secure a position in New York for 2L summer. So no idea if the exact thing you're asking is possible, but if Ottawa->New York is possible as student, seems like Ottawa->Toronto as an associate is plausible as well.

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chaboywb
  • Lawyer
12 hours ago, notterrible said:

Not my personal experience, but I know of a student at UofT who was successful in the Ottawa IP recruit (albeit as a 1L) and who then went on to secure a position in New York for 2L summer. So no idea if the exact thing you're asking is possible, but if Ottawa->New York is possible as student, seems like Ottawa->Toronto as an associate is plausible as well.

Getting a job in the formal NY recruit is not the same as lateralling as an associate. That said, I do know people that went from an Ottawa IP articling position to a Toronto associate position - but they didn't find it particularly easy to do so. Toronto firms will largely be hiring from their own articling cohort and it's not a given that there will be demand for a lateral that early on.

OP, I had this same issue in my day and decided to forego what felt like a sure shot at an Ottawa position to take my chance at Toronto in-firms. I knew I wanted to be in Toronto eventually so decided to roll the dice, and it worked out. But it was an agonizing decision to make and definitely amped up the pressure I put on myself for the Toronto recruit. Importantly, I had done well at OCIs (so figured I'd be able to transfer that to the rest of the recruit) and scheduled 7 in-firms, so I felt my chances were pretty good of a successful result - but ultimately, I only got one offer, so it was still down to the wire. How many in-firms do you have? If it's a full slate, then your chances are obviously higher than if you only ended up with one or two.

I obviously think I made the right choice because I got a job in Toronto, but I also think I would have regretted committing to Ottawa more than I would have if Toronto hadn't worked out. There are more kicks of the can with the articling recruit and other positions will of course open up. You may end up not even wanting to be an IP lawyer, which was my experience. On the other hand, the door certainly isn't closed to returning to Toronto if you start your career in Ottawa. I don't think there's a wrong choice here, it just comes down to your tolerance for risk. 

 

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equilibrium
  • Law Student
1 hour ago, chaboywb said:

Getting a job in the formal NY recruit is not the same as lateralling as an associate. That said, I do know people that went from an Ottawa IP articling position to a Toronto associate position - but they didn't find it particularly easy to do so. Toronto firms will largely be hiring from their own articling cohort and it's not a given that there will be demand for a lateral that early on.

OP, I had this same issue in my day and decided to forego what felt like a sure shot at an Ottawa position to take my chance at Toronto in-firms. I knew I wanted to be in Toronto eventually so decided to roll the dice, and it worked out. But it was an agonizing decision to make and definitely amped up the pressure I put on myself for the Toronto recruit. Importantly, I had done well at OCIs (so figured I'd be able to transfer that to the rest of the recruit) and scheduled 7 in-firms, so I felt my chances were pretty good of a successful result - but ultimately, I only got one offer, so it was still down to the wire. How many in-firms do you have? If it's a full slate, then your chances are obviously higher than if you only ended up with one or two.

I obviously think I made the right choice because I got a job in Toronto, but I also think I would have regretted committing to Ottawa more than I would have if Toronto hadn't worked out. There are more kicks of the can with the articling recruit and other positions will of course open up. You may end up not even wanting to be an IP lawyer, which was my experience. On the other hand, the door certainly isn't closed to returning to Toronto if you start your career in Ottawa. I don't think there's a wrong choice here, it just comes down to your tolerance for risk. 

 

Thanks for your comment, it's very helpful. I currently have four in firms lined up (two full-service firms and two boutiques -- this was from 7-8 OCIs), if that helps. The "caveat" here is that none of the Toronto firms I have are as "big" as the firm in Ottawa. I know I ultimately want to remain in Toronto since my support network is here, but I also feel like the gamble is extremely nerve-wracking given how competitive the job market is in Toronto. Was there something you did to try to stay positive while navigating in-firms?

Do you know how long your friends/colleagues had to stay in Ottawa before returning to Toronto? I don't think I could see myself living in Ottawa for more than 3 years. 

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WhoKnows
  • Lawyer

If you're concerned about your immediately support network being 4.5/5 hours away (and to be clear, there's nothing wrong with that), then I don't see why you would accept an Ottawa job. That goes one of two ways, you go all in on the job and end up loving it, and which point you have to make a decision to leave a good job that you like and a network you've built, or you always have a foot out the door and end up without a network or contacts 3 or so years into your career. I don't see either as particularly good options. 

Lateralling is possible but can be challenging, and I wouldn't rely on being able to do so in your first 2 years. Office transfers within the same firm are also possible but come with some burden as well. Moving cross province is also a pain. I wouldn't sign up for that risk, even if accepting the "sure thing" in Ottawa feels safe and stable. 

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