Would you do it over again?

[aj90zr]

As an articling student at a mid-size litigation firm, I find myself questioning the future of a legal career. Looking around at the lawyers here who are 5 to 10 years into practice, I struggle to find their careers or lifestyles aspirational. Many seem unfulfilled by their work, and while I know there's a stereotype that lawyers make good money, it doesn’t seem true in practice—several are still renting in Toronto and haven’t purchased homes. The stress of their workloads is palpable.

If you could go back, would you still choose private practice? Or would you pivot to something else? 

Edited November 24, 2024 by aj90zr

[BHC1]

When I was in private practice earlier in my career, I found myself unfulfilled - and that was back when financial prospects were a lot better for new lawyers than they are today. I felt the work was meaningless. I could only imagine how gut punching it would have all been if I didn’t have the carrot of the 3-bedroom condo and weekend cottage at the end of the tunnel. 

I ended up finding a job in a completely different area of law and couldn’t be happier. So to answer your question, at least for me, pivoting to something else was the best choice I could have made.

 

 

[StoneMason]

I wonder why lawyers who are 10 years into their careers in private practice are still struggling financially. Isn't the entire model around Canadian private practice that associates will be "underpaid" (whatever that means) at the earlier stages in their careers in exchange for a meaningful shot at partnership in the business? And shouldn't this be especially the case in non-big law areas such as personal injury, immigration, family, etc., where there is a lower barrier to founding one's own firm (in the event partnership is not offered)? If someone is now 10 years in and still struggling, it might point towards something else being wrong.

Edited November 24, 2024 by StoneMason

[GoatDuck]

@StoneMason aren’t you still in law school? It would be nice of you to flag that given that OP’s post is clearly targeted at people who’ve spent at least some time in private practice. 

[StoneMason]

9 minutes ago, GoatDuck said:

@StoneMason aren’t you still in law school? It would be nice of you to flag that given that OP’s post is clearly targeted at people who’ve spent at least some time in private practice. 

I don't see how the questions I raised have anything to do with me being in law school versus practicing. They're just highlighting that something isn't adding up when you have lawyers with 10 years of experience still financially struggling. The questions are valid irrespective of who asks them. 

I've deleted the two sentences about my personal experience to assuage your concerns, however 🙂

Edited November 24, 2024 by StoneMason

[GoatDuck]

Given that "If you could go back, would you still choose private practice?" implies going back to the time before private practice, and a law student has never been in private practice, any law student's reflections on whether they would still choose private practice should probably come with a disclaimer that they've never practiced. Fortunately, now that you've added a law student tag, the OP is no longer at risk of being misled. 

[StoneMason]

9 minutes ago, GoatDuck said:

Given that "If you could go back, would you still choose private practice?" implies going back to the time before private practice, and a law student has never been in private practice, any law student's reflections on whether they would still choose private practice should probably come with a disclaimer that they've never practiced. Fortunately, now that you've added a law student tag, the OP is no longer at risk of being misled. 

You are doing too much here with your strange aspirations of moderating the forum. No one was or is at risk of being misled here with any post, especially not a post where the bulk of it was a genuine question about something the OP shared (private practice lawyers struggling). 

I'll leave it at that to not further derail this thread with your odd tangent. 

[MyWifesBoyfriend]

Not to get too off topic, but is it really bad forum etiquette to ask extra questions ancillary to the OP’s question?

This isn’t meant to be a rhetorical question as I’ve been doing this in the past and I want to avoid it if it’s poor form.

Edited November 24, 2024 by MyWifesBoyfriend
Just realized there are two more posts above mine not dealing with the substance. Feel free to remove this one or splice it.

[Rashabon]

Yep I’m happy with my decisions.

[BHC1]

3 hours ago, StoneMason said:

I wonder why lawyers who are 10 years into their careers in private practice are still struggling financially. Isn't the entire model around Canadian private practice that associates will be "underpaid" (whatever that means) at the earlier stages in their careers in exchange for a meaningful shot at partnership in the business? And shouldn't this be especially the case in non-big law areas such as personal injury, immigration, family, etc., where there is a lower barrier to founding one's own firm (in the event partnership is not offered)? If someone is now 10 years in and still struggling, it might point towards something else being wrong.

Anecdotally, what I’ve heard is that mid-sized and small firm salaries have gone up around 30% percent from when I was last in private practice. Over the same time period, housing prices have doubled and tuition is up around 50%. A lot of those partners that you see at smaller shops are also just income partners - essentially more senior lawyers getting compensated a percentage of their own billings. 

While any lawyer spewing that we are being hard done by society needs a serious reality check - we are still disproportionately in the highest income brackets in this country - the cost-benefit of entering the profession has certainly gotten worst over the last decade, at least at the small and mid-sized firm level.

[chaboywb]

Choosing to go to law school is the best decision I have ever made. Loved school, love my career, love making good money. I work very hard but I know people who work harder for less pay.

Edit: I guess OP is asking about private practice specifically, not just being a lawyer. Again, I’d say yes, although I’m not a litigator. From my perspective, litigation seems exhausting, but it’s very much personality dependant. I know many happy litigators.

Edited November 24, 2024 by chaboywb

[Kimura]

I summered, articled and practiced in Biglaw, albeit the latter for just under a year.

I left for government and it was the right decision for me. I wouldn't be where I am without having grinded through my relatively short stint in private practice. It wasn't for me, but it took my experience in biglaw to realize this was the case. You could be going through a similar realization as we speak, and that's ok.

Knowing what I know now, I would have aimed for government right out of the gate. However, I was able to line up my current job (same area of law) because of the experience I gained in private practice. So I am thankful for it.

Edited November 25, 2024 by Kimura

[Aurelius]

My field is very much in demand everywhere, particular experienced mid-level associates. I would still choose family law, but I would start my early years of the career differently by choosing better firms with better support. I would've avoided revolving door firms with toxic work culture and unsupported young associates. But then again, I had much less bargaining power then when job searching as a new call, I took what came my way.

I would've also told myself "not to accept every file." Some family files are just... Unsolvable and a few clients are just... Not worth a lawyer's time and stress.

With respect to housing, a lot of us graduated with a lot of debts which would take years to pay off. While other people could save money for a down payment, many were stuck paying down debts - particularly lines of credit with high interests. Moreover, housing situation is not normal in Canada for more than 10 years. Housing has become a commodity unaffordable to most millennials and Gen-Zers. But then again, even a six figure salary doesn't go as far as the 2000s and 2010s. Cost of living rises reduce all of our purchasing powers.

[Psychometronic]

I am happy with my choices. I work at a firm that has reasonable hours and cares about the development of its associates. Some of my colleagues are good friends that I spent time with outside of work. The work is often boring and stressful but I'm in an area I find interesting and can see myself practicing in for a long time. I make enough to travel and live fairly comfortably. 

OP, if you don't like where you are, there are lots of options out there. People hop around a lot.

 

Edited November 25, 2024 by Psychometronic

[easttowest]

Yes, without a doubt. 

I spent a few years in a big law litigation group before going in house. I am tremendously compensated given the improvement in lifestyle. I’m home by 6:30 every night after a fairly long commute. Before we left the city I was home by 5:30-6. I don’t work in the evening or on weekends.  

I didn’t see anything about a big law litigation partner’s life that looked good. No matter how senior you get there will always be discoveries, mediations, motions, surprises. Being prepared to do the job well can take time, and lots of people find doing the job stressful. That may be why you find the stress palpable in your workplace. 

However, I wouldn’t have my job without the few years I spent in private practice. And while doing that we saved a Toronto-sized down payment before deciding to move elsewhere. So it was very worth it for me.

 

[WhoKnows]

I'm still in private practice, and despite really struggling with it over the years, at this point barring some unforeseen circumstances I don't intend to leave. 

I'm very well compensated (Mrs. WhoKnows and I have saved a downpayment on a reasonable home in the span of 5 months, though it's 5% rather than 20%), and generally find my work interesting-ish. I get to work with smart people and am really good at the parts of the job that predict future sucess. As I've progressed it has become much easier to manage things and I don't feel as constantly behind as I once did. 

To be clear, law isn't really my "passion". I derive some fulfillment from my work, but it's nowhere near the most fulfilling part of my life. It's a job I like enough and am good enough at to keep doing, and I am fulfilled by the fact it affords myself and my wife the ability to do things and have experiences I could only dream of as a kid. 

I've looked at making a move in house pretty hard, but the in house jobs that would keep me from being tremendously bored also come with capped compensation, and similar hours to what I currently work. Given that, it seems like a bad deal.

My advice to OP is to find some senior lawyers who actually do seem to like their jobs and live a solid quality of life. Then see how they've set up their practice. There are people in nearly every firm who find a way to strike the balance, and who you can model yourself after. There are a number of lawyers at my firm whose lives I wouldn't want, but I'm setting my practice and my life up in a way that mirror the way those whose lives I would want do. 

 

Edited November 25, 2024 by WhoKnows

[Jaggers]

I left private practice after just over 5 years, and sometimes I think I left too early, that I left a lot of money and certain types of opportunities on the table by leaving at that point. But it's rare that I really regret it, and I remind myself of the many hundreds (thousands?) or hours more I had to spend with my family, especially the last five years with a kid in the picture. And I have no concerns about money anyways, I just can't afford to buy a house near the subway 🙂

 

[Lawstudents20202020]

I'm happy with my choice. I'm about 4 years in private practice at a mid sized firm in a mid sized town, doing a mix of construction and family litigation. I find the work to be rewarding and interesting.

While I don't make oodles of money, I make enough that my partner will be a stay at home mom for the first few years of our child's life, without a reduction in living standard (although we probably won't be going on any large vacations during those years).

I also love the flexibility that comes from this profession. My previous gig in construction I had to be at work before 7, I often worked over 12 hours and weekends and I had no ability to say no. Now, I can come and go as I please, provided my work gets done, and that's a luxury most jobs don't have.

That being said, practice area makes a difference. I tried my hand at being solicitor and it is not for me. Had I made a career out of that I'd probably have a very different answer.

[BondGuy]

Before law school I worked grave shifts. I do not miss leaving work with the sun rising. 

That said, I might consider not paying international tuition (technically I still am). 

[canuckfanatic]

What I like about this industry is that there are multiple ways to be a lawyer. The trick is to figure out what kind of lawyer you want to be. Maybe you want to be a BigLaw partner and working on massive deals fulfills you. Maybe you want to have a laid back generalist practice in a rural community. Maybe you want to work remotely doing regulatory work for an institution. My advice is to figure out what you want your life to look like, and then consider what kind of law job would fit into that.

When I graduated law school, I thought I wanted to big a Lexpert ranked BigLaw hot shot, so I worked my into BigLaw. Then I got married and realized I wanted a life where I can live close to my family, never work weekends, and go on vacation without checking my phone, so I went in-house.

[happydude]

I don't think I would do it again but that is not to say I am unhappy with my career either.

The compensation is quite good by any objective measure but I find the work life balance to be lacking, which for me is a big thing. And I have found this to be the case equally in-house as in private practice. I have done both. They both suck badly and require evening and weekend work regularly. Albeit more often, and later into the night/weekend, in the firm setting. It is a function of companies and firms alike wanting to be leanly staffed, because, of course, they want to make money. Or maybe I am picking the wrong in house roles (my overall comp will soon be about 350K, and I have heard many in house roles do not approach that if one is not in a General Counsel or Assistant General Counsel role). On top of it, the reward for doing good work is..... of course.... more work! The lawyers that are lazy and skimp at doing anything more than surface-level work.... the ones that don't respond for weeks if not months at a time... they are the ones that always seem to have less work, at least from the outside looking in. Joke is on me, I suppose! 

The work can be interesting and fun at times, which is plus. But I think people over-sell that a lot. I might even go so far as to say it is cope. Sure, you aren't some cog on an assembly line. But plenty of non-lawyer jobs are interesting and use your brain and educational training. I don't think law is anything special here. Other side of the coin, there are many boring and tedious parts to a career in law - just like in countless other professions.

I don't regret law. I can soon buy a detached house in Toronto, even if not in my dream location, pay for my future kids schooling, etc. Pretty good outcome! But with the benefit of hindsight I'd have picked something with far better mobility to the USA and moved south as soon as I graduated from undergrad. Get paid in American dollars. Enjoy better weather. Very likely enjoy better work life balance in the process which again for me is big. Get to settle in a country that does not feel like (as much of) a sinking ship. In short: a better deal.

Edited December 19, 2024 by happydude

[BHC1]

9 hours ago, happydude said:

I don't think I would do it again but that is not to say I am unhappy with my career either.

The compensation is quite good by any objective measure but I find the work life balance to be lacking, which for me is a big thing. And I have found this to be the case equally in-house as in private practice. I have done both. They both suck badly and require evening and weekend work regularly. Albeit more often, and later into the night/weekend, in the firm setting. It is a function of companies and firms alike wanting to be leanly staffed, because, of course, they want to make money. Or maybe I am picking the wrong in house roles (my overall comp will soon be about 350K, and I have heard many in house roles do not approach that if one is not in a General Counsel or Assistant General Counsel role). On top of it, the reward for doing good work is..... of course.... more work! The lawyers that are lazy and skimp at doing anything more than surface-level work.... the ones that don't respond for weeks if not months at a time... they are the ones that always seem to have less work, at least from the outside looking in. Joke is on me, I suppose! 

The work can be interesting and fun at times, which is plus. But I think people over-sell that a lot. I might even go so far as to say it is cope. Sure, you aren't some cog on an assembly line. But plenty of non-lawyer jobs are interesting and use your brain and educational training. I don't think law is anything special here. Other side of the coin, there are many boring and tedious parts to a career in law - just like in countless other professions.

I don't regret law. I can soon buy a detached house in Toronto, even if not in my dream location, pay for my future kids schooling, etc. Pretty good outcome! But with the benefit of hindsight I'd have picked something with far better mobility to the USA and moved south as soon as I graduated from undergrad. Get paid in American dollars. Enjoy better weather. Very likely enjoy better work life balance in the process which again for me is big. Get to settle in a country that does not feel like (as much of) a sinking ship. In short: a better deal.

You’re in the top 1% of Canadian income earners. Well done my dude - be happy 🙂 
 

 

[chaboywb]

1 hour ago, BHC1 said:

You’re in the top 1% of Canadian income earners. Well done my dude - be happy 🙂 
 

 

Oh yes, but I'd trade it all for just a little more.

[happydude]

11 hours ago, BHC1 said:

You’re in the top 1% of Canadian income earners. Well done my dude - be happy 🙂 
 

 

Money is not everything. Again, I am a big work life balance guy. I give myself 5-10 more years in law, maximum, before I leave law entirely for something that pays less but has way better work life balance. I've tried many different types of roles in law. Some are better than others hours wise. But none are good. Law is just not a 9 to 5, Monday to Friday job. I acknowledge that and accept it. It is a tradeoff I think it worth it for the short to medium term still, get a house, pay down the mortgage aggressively, max out the kids' RESPs, but it is not a permanent career for me. I just think I could have accomplished these things with a much more enjoyable / less stressful path, in hindsight. That is all I am saying. I 100% do not regret it. And I am happy. But simultaneously, if I had all my time back, with the benefit of hindsight and lived experiences to date, I think I'd have gone another direction.