Big Law Salary Increase

[washeduplawgrad]

2 hours ago, Grey said:

Hmm, interesting. I had heard that through the grapevine so there may be some broken telephone going on. Agreed that it would be great to have this confirmed to put pressure on the other firms.

Oh yeah 0 judgment. We are all sorting this out live and people spread false rumours unintentionally. 

49 minutes ago, carlill said:

Out of interest is this the current Bay Street salary scale before these increases (hopefully) take effect:

First-year: $110,000 

Second-year: $130,000

Third-year: $150,000 

Fourth-year: $170,000

Fifth-year: $180,000

Sixth-year: $200,000

*Taken from an Ultra Vires article in July 2019.

Some firms had already upped the 180 to 190 and 200 to I think 210

[KOMODO]

1 hour ago, carlill said:

Out of interest is this the current Bay Street salary scale before these increases (hopefully) take effect:

First-year: $110,000 

Second-year: $130,000

Third-year: $150,000 

Fourth-year: $170,000

Fifth-year: $180,000

Sixth-year: $200,000

*Taken from an Ultra Vires article in July 2019.

Some of those numbers are not current / must have changed (increased slightly) after July 2019.

Edit: Oops - didn't realize this thread had gone another page, I see the poster above me already commented. Sorry!

Edited September 9, 2021 by KOMODO

[JohnsonWest]

16 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

A few other considerations, outside of tax: 

1. Vancouver bumps you up a year of call in January after your call, rather than ~16 months later;
2. The salary gap tends to widen as you get more senior; 
3. Toronto bonuses tend to be bigger, as they are generally a percentage of salary; 
4. My understanding is that partner comp is also much higher, on average, out east than in the west. But that’s based on conversations with (mainly litigation) partners in each jurisdiction, so I have a small sample size and it’s possible that’s wrong. 

Re: Hours, I am largely of the opinion that how much off-hours work you have to do is: (i) firm dependent; (ii) group dependent; and (iii) individual dependent. I know plenty of folks out west working harder for less money than folks out east. And I never had problems protecting my weekends in Toronto, despite working at a firm with a rep for the opposite. 

Money isn’t everything, though, and honestly the Vancouver firm likely would have matched my Toronto comp if I had gone further down the road with them. 

I do agree that on average Toronto pays better. That's just fact. I don't agree that Vancouver pays a "relative pittance" to Toronto though. 

Further, it's really tough as making universal conclusions one way or the other is difficult because so much is dependent on the firm you work for. At my previous firm, my principal who was also a senior partner made 1.7 mill last year. A mid-level partner (8 year call roughly) made 650-700k. And the hours were fairly reasonable. These numbers would be impressive even by Toronto standards as I understand. 

Most of my friends in Toronto are working every weekend. I'm glad you've been able to protect your weekends but I don't know how common that is. And from what I hear life during COVID was hell for them. 

Agreed that money isn't everything. I have similar sentiments to Hitman on this re. Vancouver v Toronto.

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by JohnsonWest

[Hitman9172]

2 hours ago, JohnsonWest said:

And from what I hear life during COVID was hell for them. 

 

 

This is one thing I've actually heard a lot about from my friends in Toronto, especially the ones from Vancouver. One of the biggest appeals of Toronto to them (and me as well) is the numerous social activities to do, which were largely put on pause during the pandemic, while in Vancouver you could still go outside and enjoy the mild weather and outdoor activities throughout most of the year. The pandemic soured quite a few of my friends on living in Toronto and several want to move back to Vancouver much sooner than expected. Not my experience but was interesting to hear.

Also, any further updates on whether firms have moved (or are considering moving) to copy Cassels?

[rocketship]

Just shifting this back to its original focus - has anyone heard more about pay raises at other firms? There are lots of rumours going around - it seems Cassels is confirmed (?) but Blakes and Stikes have not confirmed anything as of yet. Any news from other firms? Davies? Bennett Jones? Goodmans? McCarthys? Etc. 

[Ivermectin4President]

20 minutes ago, rocketship said:

Just shifting this back to its original focus - has anyone heard more about pay raises at other firms? There are lots of rumours going around - it seems Cassels is confirmed (?) but Blakes and Stikes have not confirmed anything as of yet. Any news from other firms? Davies? Bennett Jones? Goodmans? McCarthys? Etc. 

The only information I have from my firm is that they are aware of some apparent movement, at least from Stikes in Montreal, and that they are reaching out to their peer firms to confirm: (1) the extent of any raise; and (2) whether the raise has been restricted to certain markets. They will presumably make a decision based on that information, and whether peer firms intend to match. 

[Hitman9172]

49 minutes ago, rocketship said:

Just shifting this back to its original focus - has anyone heard more about pay raises at other firms? There are lots of rumours going around - it seems Cassels is confirmed (?) but Blakes and Stikes have not confirmed anything as of yet. Any news from other firms? Davies? Bennett Jones? Goodmans? McCarthys? Etc. 

Cassels is confirmed. Several of their lawyers in multiple offices have confirmed they've received emails from management. Haven't heard anything else yet.

[BlockedQuebecois]

I’ve been asked to share that the Cassels raise was also announced in the Vancouver office. No solid confirmation on numbers, but I’ve personally heard it’s a $20,000 increase at both the Van and Toronto offices (likely nationally). 

Edited September 10, 2021 by BlockedQuebecois
ETA: Should’ve read Hitman’s post, but there’s some extra confirmation

[washeduplawgrad]

9 hours ago, Ivermectin4President said:

The only information I have from my firm is that they are aware of some apparent movement, at least from Stikes in Montreal, and that they are reaching out to their peer firms to confirm: (1) the extent of any raise; and (2) whether the raise has been restricted to certain markets. They will presumably make a decision based on that information, and whether peer firms intend to match. 

They told you this in writing? I’m impressed. I thought firms generally stayed silent until decisions made.

[Ivermectin4President]

6 hours ago, washeduplawgrad said:

They told you this in writing? I’m impressed. I thought firms generally stayed silent until decisions made.

Lord no, they would never put this in writing. 

[Ghalm]

The latest rumour-based update I have is that a number of Toronto firms including those already mentioned on this thread (like Stikes/Blake's but also McCarthy's and Tory's) were made aware of the Cassel's bump and are having internal discussions among the powers that be about if and how they will react. Perhaps next week will bring more news. 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Ghalm

[washeduplawgrad]

17 hours ago, Ivermectin4President said:

Lord no, they would never put this in writing. 

LOL that’s why I was so shocked!! So you just got this info from someone high up in your firm?

[BlockedQuebecois]

I was on Bay Street the summer that student salaries bumped up, and what @Ivermectin4President said was more or less the SOP at both my firm and the firms my friends worked at: (i) tell the summers (or associates) that you're aware of a potential raise; (ii) inform them that you'll be confirming the quantum of any raise, what markets have received the raise;, and other details; (iii) tell them that once you've confirmed the details that information will be forwarded to the proper committee(s) and firm leadership will decide what to do; and (iv) say something about being committed to paying what your peer firms are paying in order to attract and retain top talent.

The only real difference between firm responses was some firms had meetings with all their students to say (i) through (iv), and some just individually passed that on as students raised the issue.

[QueensGrad]

Hearing rumours through the grapevine that Fasken is matching the $130K first year associate salary, and Davies is going to $150K for first years. This is second-hand so take with a grain of salt. 

[Ivermectin4President]

54 minutes ago, QueensGrad said:

Hearing rumours through the grapevine that Fasken is matching the $130K first year associate salary, and Davies is going to $150K for first years. This is second-hand so take with a grain of salt. 

Now THIS would be interesting. I think Davies has always paid slightly ahead of market, but this would be a pretty substantial difference, if true. Other firms may have to match. 

[QueensGrad]

31 minutes ago, Ivermectin4President said:

Now THIS would be interesting. I think Davies has always paid slightly ahead of market, but this would be a pretty substantial difference, if true. Other firms may have to match. 

I may be wrong, but I believe Davies is usually around $20K above the market rate. For example, I believe they pay first years $130K now, vs a market rate of $110K. 

[Ivermectin4President]

25 minutes ago, QueensGrad said:

I may be wrong, but I believe Davies is usually around $20K above the market rate. For example, I believe they pay first years $130K now, vs a market rate of $110K. 

Then strike my last. 

[BlockedQuebecois]

Davies was/is at 135k; Bennett Jones was/is the firm at 130k.

And yeah, the rest of the street has always been happy to have Davies and BJs ahead by 15-20k. I would expect a bump at Davies to force other firms to heavily consider matching the Cassels raise, but I’d be surprised if any (except BJs) match Davies’ comp. 

Edited September 12, 2021 by BlockedQuebecois

[washeduplawgrad]

Update re Davies, no word officially of raising salaries but they are giving lunch to anyone who is working in office. 

[spacecadet]

On 9/13/2021 at 2:02 AM, BlockedQuebecois said:

Davies was/is at 135k; Bennett Jones was/is the firm at 130k.

 

I didn't want to make a new thread for this: I've heard that Davies and Bennett Jones make you work harder and staff files relatively thinly when compared to other Bay Street firms. Is this true?

[Ghalm]

I haven’t heard of any movement at any firm this week. What are the chances that the street is going to let Cassels be a new market leader? 

[Grey]

1 hour ago, Ghalm said:

I haven’t heard of any movement at any firm this week. What are the chances that the street is going to let Cassels be a new market leader? 

If that ends up being the case it will be so incredibly disappointing. Time to go to the US. 

[PePeHalpert]

1 hour ago, Ghalm said:

I haven’t heard of any movement at any firm this week. What are the chances that the street is going to let Cassels be a new market leader? 

Unlikely I think.   I still think we will see some more movement in the next couple weeks.

[Ivermectin4President]

1 hour ago, Ghalm said:

I haven’t heard of any movement at any firm this week. What are the chances that the street is going to let Cassels be a new market leader? 

My understanding is that the raise at Cassels doesn’t actually take effect until October 1 - so, plenty of time for the rest of the pack to catch up. It usually takes a few weeks for firms to respond to raises and get on the same page, anyways.

[theSquibandtheEye]

I heard that Faskens confirmed a raise. Not sure if anyone can confirm or deny that.