Big Law Salary Increase

[C_Terror]

8 minutes ago, Ghalm said:

I just don’t get how firms that think their brand name is worth something also think they shouldn’t pay top market. 
 

If firms don’t match Cassels I think it will accelerate the brain drain to the US. It will also affect student and associate decisions on where they’d want to work. A 20k-25k difference is a big differential. 

I know I feel disappointed and demotivated at the apparent reluctance of other firms to announce matches, and I work at a firm that relies on the sister brand.

I feel you. All my friends at not just the sisters but other top tier law firms are pretty disappointed at their own firms, especially when a majority of these firms tout themselves as one of Canada's "top", "market leading" or "best" law firms; except when it comes to salary. Then they're all "wait and see what the market does". 

That being said, I will give credit where credit's due to Bennett Jones for breaking away from the pack and creating a third tier (between Davies and the rest of Bay), and now to Cassells as well.

[1900s]

Feeling pretty disappointed and de-motivated by my firm’s silence as well. It is frustrating that every firm seems to be waiting for someone else to make a move first. 

[Ghalm]

7 minutes ago, 2019Lawyer said:

Feeling pretty disappointed and de-motivated by my firm’s silence as well. It is frustrating that every firm seems to be waiting for someone else to make a move first. 

Right. And what boggles the mind is that, well, a firm has made a move! Cassels isn’t some random law firm… it’s a well known firm across similar practice areas… it competes for the same crop of students and associates. 

[asparagus4444]

I would be shocked if pressure doesn’t force all firms to match in the next few weeks. I’ve seen more and more colleagues heading south. For those of us turning down recruiter calls, and given that there hasn’t been a raise in a long time for associates working brutal COVID hours, it will just increase the numbers of jumps across Bay, whether sisters or not. I’ve seen some associates moving after even just a few months between firms. The talent shortage is real.
 

These firms need to match or risk losing candidates to signing bonus wars on Bay and Wall St. for frankly comparable hours. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Ghalm said:

Right. And what boggles the mind is that, well, a firm has made a move! Cassels isn’t some random law firm… it’s a well known firm across similar practice areas… it competes for the same crop of students and associates. 

At my old firm we lost a few clerks to another major firm who was paying tens of thousands more. I asked a partner  in the know whether there were any plans to bump our clerk salaries, and they said, "No, we don't compete with [the other firm]."

Mind boggling.

[C_Terror]

6 minutes ago, asparagus4444 said:

I would be shocked if pressure doesn’t force all firms to match in the next few weeks. I’ve seen more and more colleagues heading south. For those of us turning down recruiter calls, and given that there hasn’t been a raise in a long time for associates working brutal COVID hours, it will just increase the numbers of jumps across Bay, whether sisters or not. I’ve seen some associates moving after even just a few months between firms. The talent shortage is real.
 

These firms need to match or risk losing candidates to signing bonus wars on Bay and Wall St. for frankly comparable hours. 

It's been about 2-3 weeks now since news came out that Cassels is bumping base salary. I think most of us are just disheartened that every other firm is just on radio silence about this for the last while. Now that the increase is set to come into effect next week, it just seems all the clearer that firms are just waiting to see which other firms blink first before piling in.

[KOMODO]

17 minutes ago, asparagus4444 said:

... given that there hasn’t been a raise in a long time for associates working brutal COVID hours....

I agree that there's a talent shortage, and there's definitely pressure on firms to match Cassels, but I don't really think it's fair to say that there hasn't been a raise in a long time - we just got unprecedented retention bonuses of 10-20% this year which are so fresh they're not even fully paid out yet, and annual salaries for some years of call were just bumped at certain firms last year. I'm also hoping for a(nother) raise but I can understand how firm managers probably feel like they can't keep up, they've been throwing new money at us pretty regularly lately.

I also agree with one of the commenters above who said that they don't see this type of raise as one that has an impact on brain drain to the States. If people are willing to do that kind of work and move south, $20-25k (Canadian) is unlikely to change their minds. To me this seems like more of an attempt to stop people from going in house locally, and I think for that purpose, it's enough to be effective.

[asparagus4444]

12 minutes ago, C_Terror said:

It's been about 2-3 weeks now since news came out that Cassels is bumping base salary. I think most of us are just disheartened that every other firm is just on radio silence about this for the last while. Now that the increase is set to come into effect next week, it just seems all the clearer that firms are just waiting to see which other firms blink first before piling in.

Absolutely agreed. I just can’t fathom a world where the bigger players (sisters/internationals/competing nationals) allow Cassels to take the lead on salaries in a talent war, especially in a year with supposedly booming business. Definitely disheartening. If there is no salary match, I think there may be a significant reputational re-ordering for students and laterals in the coming weeks. At the end of the day, these are just jobs and we all want to be paid top market for our talent.

[Ghalm]

8 minutes ago, KOMODO said:

I agree that there's a talent shortage, and there's definitely pressure on firms to match Cassels, but I don't really think it's fair to say that there hasn't been a raise in a long time - we just got unprecedented retention bonuses of 10-20% this year which are so fresh they're not even fully paid out yet, and annual salaries for some years of call were just bumped at certain firms last year. I'm also hoping for a(nother) raise but I can understand how firm managers probably feel like they can't keep up, they've been throwing new money at us pretty regularly lately.

I also agree with one of the commenters above who said that they don't see this type of raise as one that has an impact on brain drain to the States. If people are willing to do that kind of work and move south, $20-25k (Canadian) is unlikely to change their minds. To me this seems like more of an attempt to stop people from going in house locally, and I think for that purpose, it's enough to be effective.

On the point about brain drain… true 20k bump doesn’t compare to US salaries and is better likely to stop ppl from going in house…. But I think a refusal to match a 20k bump will have a psychological effect on associates that could encourage more to make a jump to the US… ppl who are disheartened and demotivated by a reluctance to match a competitor firm’s salary bump are more likely to consider making a jump to the US. 

[asparagus4444]

14 minutes ago, KOMODO said:

I'm also hoping for a(nother) raise but I can understand how firm managers probably feel like they can't keep up, they've been throwing new money at us pretty regularly lately.

I hear you, but considering the layoffs that rocked certain firms as well as the massive savings all firms have had from not paying dinners, taxis, socials or in office costs, along with the transactional boom market for debt and equity, I don’t know that I’d consider it throwing money (a lot of firms also put target quotas on the retention bonuses). Cassels is a pressurized response to crazy lateral movement. I’ve seen so many jumps also within Bay. I’d just be pretty shocked if the market stays silent and personally, it would make me also look harder at LA and NYC offers.

[nayaab05]

2 hours ago, washeduplawgrad said:

All the 7 sisters gave the bonus didn’t they? I’m shocked to hear a firm didn’t/relied on their “name brand” not to. 

Not all. There’s at least one that didn’t pay their articling students the 5k bonus. 

[Hitman9172]

I think a $25k salary difference would definitely have an impact on firm "prestige". Associates lose their minds when their competitors raise salaries $5k while their own firm doesn't. A $25k raise might not stop firms from losing people to the US but it'll definitely make associates think twice about in-house positions, and it has a psychological effect on how "elite" some of the firms are considered, particularly by students.

I'd be very surprised if the other big firms don't match soon, but I've also heard of many firms dragging their feet because they mainly watch 2 or 3 "competitors" of similar size in their market before matching salaries.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Hitman9172

[Mountebank]

Just had my third set of exploratory talks from Bay Street firms/recruiters about buying my book and taking me onboard. And I'm a sole from nowheresville.

The shortage must be getting serious.

[washeduplawgrad]

7 minutes ago, Mountebank said:

Just had my third set of exploratory talks from Bay Street firms/recruiters about buying my book and taking me onboard. And I'm a sole from nowheresville.

The shortage must be getting serious.

What type of work?

[C_Terror]

52 minutes ago, Mountebank said:

Just had my third set of exploratory talks from Bay Street firms/recruiters about buying my book and taking me onboard. And I'm a sole from nowheresville.

The shortage must be getting serious.

Right now, 2021 calls are encouraged to apply and given interviews to NY, San Fran, LA and London essentially whenever they want. Personally, I know about 50% of my peers that have their resumes/deal tables (or lack thereof) updated and ready to go. 

[QueensGrad]

18 hours ago, Hitman9172 said:

I think a $25k salary difference would definitely have an impact on firm "prestige". Associates lose their minds when their competitors raise salaries $5k while their own firm doesn't. A $25k raise might not stop firms from losing people to the US but it'll definitely make associates think twice about in-house positions, and it has a psychological effect on how "elite" some of the firms are considered, particularly by students.

I'd be very surprised if the other big firms don't match soon, but I've also heard of many firms dragging their feet because they mainly watch 2 or 3 "competitors" of similar size in their market before matching salaries.

I’ve also heard this with reference to one global firm that doesn’t make a move unless another, similar global firm does so. 
 

22 minutes ago, C_Terror said:

Right now, 2021 calls are encouraged to apply and given interviews to NY, San Fran, LA and London essentially whenever they want. Personally, I know about 50% of my peers that have their resumes/deal tables (or lack thereof) updated and ready to go. 

Also worth noting approximately 60-70 people from the U of T class of 2021 are heading to NYC—so I hear, anyways.
 

 

[1900s]

17 minutes ago, QueensGrad said:

I’ve also heard this with reference to one global firm that doesn’t make a move unless another, similar global firm does so. 
 

Also worth noting approximately 60-70 people from the U of T class of 2021 are heading to NYC—so I hear, anyways.
 

 

Can you share which global firm you’re referring to?

[BlockedQuebecois]

59 minutes ago, QueensGrad said:

I’ve also heard this with reference to one global firm that doesn’t make a move unless another, similar global firm does so. 

That’s hilarious, because the global firms in Canada aren’t considered to be the market leaders.

I also don’t think anybody is going to think Cassels is a better firm than they already do just because they pay what BJs pays. BJs has been paying more than the rest of the market (save Davies) for years and nobody talks about BJs like it’s Morgans. 

Hell, Wachtell has been paying its lawyers literally double the Cravath scale for at least two decades and people still only view it as vaguely a bit better than Skadden. 

[QueensGrad]

 

 

17 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

That’s hilarious, because the global firms in Canada aren’t considered to be the market leaders.

I also don’t think anybody is going to think Cassels is a better firm than they already do just because they pay what BJs pays. BJs has been paying more than the rest of the market (save Davies) for years and nobody talks about BJs like it’s Morgans. 

Hell, Wachtell has been paying its lawyers literally double the Cravath scale for at least two decades and people still only view it as vaguely a bit better than Skadden. 

I may be wrong, but isn’t Wachtell considered one of, if not the premier transactional firm in the US? I suppose that doesn’t speak to the overall quality of the firm as they aren’t market leaders in some other areas, but it is number 2 on the Vault 100 despite only having one office, and  has a Band 1 m&a ranking on Chambers in addition to band 1 tax and some band 2-3 litigation rankings. One of their Chambers reviewer even calls them the best firm in the US! Caveat that I’m not a deal lawyer or licensed in the US so my knowledge is secondhand. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by QueensGrad

[goonersfc]

2 hours ago, QueensGrad said:

Also worth noting approximately 60-70 people from the U of T class of 2021 are heading to NYC—so I hear, anyways.

I would say the number of people from U ofT heading to NYC this year is substantially higher than most years, but I don't think its anywhere near 60-70. I think the correct estimate is about 30-35 people.

[BlockedQuebecois]

1 hour ago, QueensGrad said:

 

 

I may be wrong, but isn’t Wachtell considered one of, if not the premier transactional firm in the US? I suppose that doesn’t speak to the overall quality of the firm as they aren’t market leaders in some other areas, but it is number 2 on the Vault 100 despite only having one office, and  has a Band 1 m&a ranking on Chambers in addition to band 1 tax and some band 2-3 litigation rankings. One of their Chambers reviewer even calls them the best firm in the US! Caveat that I’m not a deal lawyer or licensed in the US so my knowledge is secondhand. 

Yes… that’s why I said “vaguely a bit better than Skadden” and not “tied with Dentons” or some other insult. 

[Mountebank]

5 hours ago, washeduplawgrad said:

What type of work?

Estates/Trusts.

Although none of the firms are as large as the ones I think most people are discussing on here.

[Jaggers]

Most of the big firms keep at least one estates/trusts person on. I call on them every now and then when an employee dies and their family members are arguing about who we should give the RRSP or employee ownership plan assets to.

[C_Terror]

1 hour ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Yes… that’s why I said “vaguely a bit better than Skadden” and not “tied with Dentons” or some other insult. 

Dentons just catching strays in this thread lmao.

[Mountebank]

1 hour ago, Jaggers said:

Most of the big firms keep at least one estates/trusts person on. I call on them every now and then when an employee dies and their family members are arguing about who we should give the RRSP or employee ownership plan assets to.

Ptthft. Call me. My rates are slightly lower!