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Should Ryerson or any University change its name ?


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SlytherinLLP
  • Articling Student
18 minutes ago, Hegdis said:

I did watch the whole thing. And I am a Gen X, which is to say 40. 

I have an instinctive distrust of any back-slapping “Yay is we no longer hang black people or imprison gay people”. Not because those things aren’t true, and aren’t progress, but because there’s an undertone of self-congratulation. 

The single most valuable thing I ever learned is there is no neutral. You guys in or beyond law school remember the debate about the law’s reliance on “the reasonable man” test.

I went to Queens in the early 2000s. Professor Trotter - Justice Trotter, I believe he is now  - used to challenge us on this. “Reasonable to who?” He would ask, striding back and forth. His bald spot would get pink when he was really into it. “Reasonable to a person in a wheelchair? A black woman? A guy with a brother who suffers from severe brain damage?”

And he would stop and say, quite simply, “None of you are neutral. The law thinks it is. You will have to deal with that.”

O all of this - the idea of progress - is real but also relative. It will be harder for people coming from privilege to acknowledge the great distance to go. It will be harder for people coming from oppression to feel like they have reached a plateau. It is relative. There is no ultimate truth. It’s a matter of where you stand. 

There is a long way to go, no doubt.

But I don't think think there was any self-congratulatory undertone there - not that I could pick up anyways, especially given Maher's stance on gay rights, criticism of religion in 90s before it was mainstream. Rather it serves as a reminder that policy needs to be based on reality, and the reality is most people in the Western world are on board with progressive values. 

Edited by SlytherinLLP
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Five years ago, I would have agreed with a lot of the takes in this thread. And I was reflecting, recently, on what changed for me. Why did I used to care so much about the preservation of the na

Queen's University's name doesn't really have a lot of relevance to students these days, given the band's terminal decline since Freddie died.

So everything else aside, I am kinda excited that we are having this forum’s first Big Discussion That Pisses Everyone Off. While I vehemently disagree with some of you and very much applaud others, t

epeeist
  • Lawyer
1 hour ago, Barry said:

Renaming is (relatively) cheap (more expensive for a University than a school). But Federal government still unwilling to spend money.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2021/06/14/this-fight-over-compensation-for-first-nation-kids-has-been-raging-for-14-years-on-monday-its-back-in-court-amid-calls-for-canada-to-just-do-the-right-thing.html

This is emblematic of one of my points, names are used as a convenient distraction from what the Feds are - or aren't - doing. Feds [EDIT: and liberal supporters claiming to care] etc. advocating low-cost things that give a false sense of accomplishment that is largely cosmetic if unwilling to do anything substantive and actually, you know, spend money and political capital. Yay, rename Ryerson to be less offensive, while screwing up the education and lives of many Indigenous children who might want to attend university...

Yes, words including names matter. A name change can be a nice first step even if I don't have the same view of Ryerson. But after how many years is it, enough with the fucking first steps, do something substantive not cosmetic or stop pretending to care. "We support everything the truth and reconciliation commission said, except for anything that might cost us votes in Quebec, cost significant money that would interfere with everything else we want to spend on to get reelected, or bring the name of Trudeau - Pierre Elliot Trudeau - into disrepute..."

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Salazar
  • Law Student

I was at work all day and didn’t have time to post, and I see the thread has mostly moved beyond what was being discussed. So, if any of the people I’m replying to still care:

@LittleVeggie See @efrefgg’s reply, which is far more eloquent than anything I could ever come up with.

@Barry You’ll note that nothing in the article you posted actually contradicts anything the two Ryerson profs wrote. Ryerson’s proposals had the support of Indigenous leaders at the time. It’s only because of hindsight that we lay blame for what happened in those schools at Ryerson’s feet.

@BlockedQuebecois Thanks for your post explaining your transformation. I myself was wondering about it. Reading the threads that @efrefgg saved from the old forum and it’s clear that your 2017 self would definitely be arguing for the other side in this thread. Your perspective is an interesting one to me since my viewpoints are very much like yours were.

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LittleVeggie
16 hours ago, efrefgg said:

(though Veggie is talking about the palepenisity of folks in power and not the people present here, if I'm reading properly).

I'm old, it's early and I know better than to respond to too much before I've had at least two cups of coffee.

But this is correct 🙂 

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On 6/14/2021 at 6:34 PM, Hegdis said:

I went to Queens in the early 2000s. Professor Trotter - Justice Trotter, I believe he is now  - used to challenge us on this. “Reasonable to who?” He would ask, striding back and forth. His bald spot would get pink when he was really into it. “Reasonable to a person in a wheelchair? A black woman? A guy with a brother who suffers from severe brain damage?”

 

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