Access category

[NoName]

I’ve dealt with life long mental health issues that haven’t necessarily impacted my grades (with the exception of fall 2020 thanks to online learning being new to me). I wasn’t going to apply to any access category because I’ve always thought that if schools know about your mental health issues they’ll look poorly towards you. Silly, I know, but stigma is hard to fight off sometimes. 

But is it worth it? At least to explain my dip in grades for that 1 semester? Or if my grades are high enough (cgpa 3.9, L2 3.8) should I just not bother? 

[Darth Vader]

6 minutes ago, NoName said:

I’ve dealt with life long mental health issues that haven’t necessarily impacted my grades (with the exception of fall 2020 thanks to online learning being new to me). I wasn’t going to apply to any access category because I’ve always thought that if schools know about your mental health issues they’ll look poorly towards you. Silly, I know, but stigma is hard to fight off sometimes. 

But is it worth it? At least to explain my dip in grades for that 1 semester? Or if my grades are high enough (cgpa 3.9, L2 3.8) should I just not bother? 

Unless you have medical documentation that explains why your grades dripped in only that one semester, then I would not bother. Also, applying in the access category does not make admissions easier. Most spots still go to General applicants. By applying access, they would take more time to review your application and if you are accepted, it would likely further along in the process. 

Also, why does it matter? You already have an A average. Are you applying to any schools that need higher than this?

[NoName]

25 minutes ago, Darth Vader said:

Unless you have medical documentation that explains why your grades dripped in only that one semester, then I would not bother. Also, applying in the access category does not make admissions easier. Most spots still go to General applicants. By applying access, they would take more time to review your application and if you are accepted, it would likely further along in the process. 

Also, why does it matter? You already have an A average. Are you applying to any schools that need higher than this?

When you put it like that, it doesn’t really matter haha. I guess I’ve been overthinking this a bit. 

thank you!
 

[Thrive92]

19 hours ago, NoName said:

I’ve always thought that if schools know about your mental health issues they’ll look poorly towards you.

There are multiple posts and threads on this forum that indicates that this is not true.

I would still recommend you apply access if you have medical documentation for it. Regardless of whether this condition has affected you for one semester or for the entire undergraduate career, it has still affected you -- the worry of whether the access category process may take longer than the general category should not prevent you from disclosing this fact to the adcom of your applied schools.

[Darth Vader]

49 minutes ago, Thrive92 said:

There are multiple posts and threads on this forum that indicates that this is not true.

I would still recommend you apply access if you have medical documentation for it. Regardless of whether this condition has affected you for one semester or for the entire undergraduate career, it has still affected you -- the worry of whether the access category process may take longer than the general category should not prevent you from disclosing this fact to the adcom of your applied schools.

Online learning during the pandemic was new for everyone and I am not sure if this is related to OP's mental health issues. If they can provide documentation showing there is a correlation, then maybe they can make an access claim. I still don't see the point given that they have a 3.9 cGPA and 3.8 Last 2. Provided they get an LSAT score in the high 150s-low 160s, they should get into a number of schools in the General category.

[Thrive92]

6 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

Online learning during the pandemic was new for everyone and I am not sure if this is related to OP's mental health issues. If they can provide documentation showing there is a correlation, then maybe they can make an access claim. I still don't see the point given that they have a 3.9 cGPA and 3.8 Last 2. Provided they get an LSAT score in the high 150s-low 160s, they should get into a number of schools in the General category.

I am not sure if the fall 2020 semester that OP had mentioned is related to OP's mental health issues either, and I have not assumed that I did with my post.

To repeat my advice above, if mental health have affected OP for one semester or for the entire undergraduate career and if OP has medical documentation for the mental health issue, then applying for access should be encouraged as OP may have grounds for the admissions category.

To disregard this option because OP may already have competitive stats for the general category doesn't seem smart; applying for the access category may help OP better explain to the adcom of the schools that he/she/they are applying to of any discrepancies in the grades of a particular semester(s) or any challenges that OP has faced during undergrad. To discourage this because of the opinion that applying to access is somehow disadvantageous due to the extra time spent by adcom to review OP's application seems ill - advised.

[Pendragon]

5 hours ago, Thrive92 said:

I am not sure if the fall 2020 semester that OP had mentioned is related to OP's mental health issues either, and I have not assumed that I did with my post.

To repeat my advice above, if mental health have affected OP for one semester or for the entire undergraduate career and if OP has medical documentation for the mental health issue, then applying for access should be encouraged as OP may have grounds for the admissions category.

To disregard this option because OP may already have competitive stats for the general category doesn't seem smart; applying for the access category may help OP better explain to the adcom of the schools that he/she/they are applying to of any discrepancies in the grades of a particular semester(s) or any challenges that OP has faced during undergrad. To discourage this because of the opinion that applying to access is somehow disadvantageous due to the extra time spent by adcom to review OP's application seems ill - advised.

It may not just be disadvantageous due to the extra time involved as the schools start filling up their classes, but also that successful access applicants make up a very small pool of acceptances at any law school. If OP applied in the General Category with a decent LSAT score, they may get in early in the December-February window. Otherwise, they may very well be waiting until March-May for an acceptance.

[Thrive92]

35 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

It may not just be disadvantageous due to the extra time involved as the schools start filling up their classes, but also that successful access applicants make up a very small pool of acceptances at any law school. If OP applied in the General Category with a decent LSAT score, they may get in early in the December-February window. Otherwise, they may very well be waiting until March-May for an acceptance.

IIRC there is a law school (Uvic I think, but not completely sure) that would accept applicants from the access category to the general category should their stats be competitive enough to be in the latter category. I am not saying that every law school may follow this policy, but it is incorrect to indicate that you are at a disadvantage in terms of the date of the application review based on whether you have applied via access or general category.

[scooter]

9 hours ago, Pendragon said:

It may not just be disadvantageous due to the extra time involved

Access is not going to disadvantage your application. If you have a 4.0 and a 170, they are not going to delay your admission until later in the cycle just because of an access claim. Also, if your claim is not "acceptable" they will just consider you in the General category instead. 

Osgoode has stated the order of how they do this, and I believe it would be similar at other schools.

1. Rank everyone by stats

2. Consider all Part B claims

3. Taking those factors into account, group applicants according to the order they should be reviewed

If you have strong enough stats, you will be reviewed in an earlier round regardless of access claim. 

[BlockedQuebecois]

The idea that schools would disadvantage access applicants relative to general applicants is so antithetical to the central premise of access claims – being that schools wish to increase the representation of people with access claims at their schools – that it has to be incorrect. No school is disadvantaging access applicants in the application process. 

I'm a bit confused by how anybody could actually thing getting admitted is harder in the access category. 

[GGrievous]

This is a dumb argument that depends on the individual applicant and the school.

In regards to OP it doesn’t sound like (based on the info they’ve given) they would be a good candidate for access because they’ve admitted their mental health issues have not impacted their grades but that the pandemic has. OP would need to build a good case for why they are applying access knowing that information, they would need medical documentation. We don’t know their LSAT, but I assume the mental health issues haven’t impacted that either. They have an almost perfect GPA, so I have no clue why they would go this route. I would say on the advantage v disadvantage scale… this scenario is tipping to disadvantageous. This person doesn’t have a good access claim and it’s not worth trying to make one up as a safety net because access has a lot of requirements, and honesty is an important one. 

[BlockedQuebecois]

@Barry you, and possibly others in this thread, seem to be working under an incorrect understanding of how access claims are handled. You seem to think the schools have silos for applicants, and that an applicant with stats sufficient for admission in the general category and a weak access claim would be admitted if they applied in the general category but rejected if they applied access. This is incorrect for every school I am familiar with. 

Short of an exceptional scenario where a student fabricated their access claim or revealed, through their access claim, that they were a poor fit for the school (by writing a claim about how white men are disadvantaged, for example), an applicant who would have been admitted if they applied in the general category will always be admitted if they apply via the access category. 

To illustrate why this is true, consider how many schools process applications: 

1. First, all applicants are considered in the general category
   1. Students with sufficient stats are admitted
   2. Students with insufficient stats and no access claim (category 1 students) are rejected
   3. Students with insufficient stats and an access claim (category 2 students) are put into a pile for review
2. Second, category 2 students are considered for admission based on both their stats and their access claim

This isn't the exact process works at all schools, but it is illustrative of the way most schools treat their applications. 

To repeat what I said earlier, no school is disadvantaging access applicants in the application process. To say otherwise is clearly wrong. 

[GGrievous]

I didn’t say the school would disadvantage them I said it would be a disadvantage to try to push access without a good reason, OP doesn’t have a good reason.

 

what exactly would you advise them to write in their application? “Hey admissions:My mental health condition didn’t impact my grades but I’m including them anyway because You’ll be too dumb to notice.”?

[scooter]

7 minutes ago, Barry said:

This is a dumb argument that depends on the individual applicant and the school.

 

This is not a 'dumb argument' lol. It is important that people who have a vaild access claim don't read this thread, and then think they will be disadvantaged by making such a claim.  There were some incorrect statements made about the access category, and they've been corrected.

[Thrive92]

@NoName Wade through the argument that I have started (sorry about that) and heed my advice that I am repeating to you with this post -- Apply access if you have the proper documentation. Regardless of whether this condition has affected you for one semester or for the entire undergraduate career, it has still affected you.

To summarize, you will not be at a disadvantage if you apply access with proper documentation and the condition has affected you stats - wise. To anyone who is reading this thinking about applying to access, do not be discouraged from applying in that category by erroneously thinking that somehow that will be disadvantageous compared to applying to general. This is incorrect.

[scooter]

2 minutes ago, Barry said:

what exactly would you advise them to write in their application? “Hey admissions:My mental health condition didn’t impact my grades but I’m including them anyway because You’ll be too dumb to notice.”?

Access isn't a charitable admissions category for people with poor grades. You will see that for many schools, the median stats for Access are almost exactly the same as the medians for the General category.

The stated purpose of Access categories is to give additional consideration to barriers you've faced to education, and to your ability to enrich the diversity of the law school and the legal profession. 

Access asks not just about performance considerations (I had bad grades because X), but about factors like disability, membership of a disadvantaged group, financial disadvantage etc. Even if you had a 4.0, it would still be appropriate to discuss such factors.

[VitalGiraffe]

11 hours ago, Thrive92 said:

IIRC there is a law school (Uvic I think, but not completely sure) that would accept applicants from the access category to the general category should their stats be competitive enough to be in the latter category.

It's UBC

[GGrievous]

12 minutes ago, VitalGiraffe said:

It's UBC

UBC has a discretionary category. They don’t make decisions in this category until May. There are limited spaces. And they don’t consider discretionary in the general. This is meant for students that don’t satisfy the stats requirements or degree requirements.

 

So definitely don’t apply to UBC this way OP.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Barry

[Pendragon]

2 hours ago, scooter said:

Access is not going to disadvantage your application. If you have a 4.0 and a 170, they are not going to delay your admission until later in the cycle just because of an access claim. Also, if your claim is not "acceptable" they will just consider you in the General category instead. 

Osgoode has stated the order of how they do this, and I believe it would be similar at other schools.

1. Rank everyone by stats

2. Consider all Part B claims

3. Taking those factors into account, group applicants according to the order they should be reviewed

If you have strong enough stats, you will be reviewed in an earlier round regardless of access claim. 

Does Osgoode have an access category? From my understanding, Part B isn't considered an access category and a lot of people fill that section out when they apply there. 

[scooter]

5 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

Does Osgoode have an access category? From my understanding, Part B isn't considered an access category and a lot of people fill that section out when they apply there. 

Osgoode's Part B asks about the same considerations that would be considered "access" at other schools. I think the way that they present the question makes it more likely for people to respond. I wouldn't say Part B is equivalent to Access but it seems to serve a similar purpose.

[GGrievous]

42 minutes ago, scooter said:

Access isn't a charitable admissions category for people with poor grades. You will see that for many schools, the median stats for Access are almost exactly the same as the medians for the General category.

The stated purpose of Access categories is to give additional consideration to barriers you've faced to education, and to your ability to enrich the diversity of the law school and the legal profession. 

Access asks not just about performance considerations (I had bad grades because X), but about factors like disability, membership of a disadvantaged group, financial disadvantage etc. Even if you had a 4.0, it would still be appropriate to discuss such factors.

It would not be advantageous for OP to have more weight placed on disability factors when these factors are by their own description not at all compelling. This is what access does, it places more weight on other factors than stats. OP has good stats, bad other factors.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Barry

[scooter]

You continue to display a misunderstanding of how Access applications are reviewed.

[GGrievous]

If you thought part B was an access category you clearly aren’t seeing that an actual access claim requires documentation, verification, and those things still need to be present even if they’re reviewed generally first. It’s never advantageous to put in an access claim when you don’t have a good reason for doing so. If OP feels they do have a good application then yeah obviously they should but based on what they posted they don’t seem to. 
 

feeling pretty repetitive here so hopefully OP got something out of this train wreck. Best of luck OP.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Barry

[BlockedQuebecois]

1 hour ago, Barry said:

I didn’t say the school would disadvantage them I said it would be a disadvantage to try to push access without a good reason, OP doesn’t have a good reason.

It's possible I'm dumb, but I'm not sure I see the difference between "the school would disadvantage them" and "it would be a disadvantage" in the context of law school admissions. 

30 minutes ago, Barry said:

It would not be advantageous for OP to have more weight placed on disability factors when these factors are by their own description not at all compelling. This is what access does, it places more weight on other factors than stats. OP has good stats, bad other factors.

You have a very fundamentally wrong understanding of access categories. 

55 minutes ago, Barry said:

UBC has a discretionary category. They don’t make decisions in this category until May. There are limited spaces. And they don’t consider discretionary in the general. This is meant for students that don’t satisfy the stats requirements or degree requirements.

 

So definitely don’t apply to UBC this way OP.

Considering I applied in the discretionary category at UBC and was admitted in the general category, the bolded seems incorrect. I know they don't state it on their website, but if you ask them, they'll tell you discretionary applicants are first considered in the general category. 

13 minutes ago, Barry said:

If you thought part B was an access category you clearly aren’t seeing that an actual access claim requires documentation, verification, and those things still need to be present even if they’re reviewed generally first.

Part B is Osgoode's access category, they just don't call it that. They have two broad categories: general and indigenous. Then, within general, they have people who complete Part A only, or those with access claims, who complete Part B. 

I think you are perhaps taking too literal approach to your understanding of access claims. But in any event, nearly everything you've said in this thread has been wrong, and I think you should probably stop trying to advise people on this topic. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by BlockedQuebecois

[GGrievous]

15 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Considering I applied in the discretionary category at UBC and was admitted in the general category, the bolded seems incorrect. I know they don't state it on their website,

I'll take that I was wrong on this point , I was under the impression that they review them separately but shouldn't have written that without being sure. 

I still stand by not advising someone to apply access without a good reason just because they will be reviewed generally first anyway.