Any chance?

[Law nerd 221]

Hi,

FYI, I'm asking this for someone else.

UG GPA 2.78 (from the UK), LSAT 157, master's degree, decent work experience and reference letters.

Do you think she can get admission from any Canadian law schools?

Thanks!

[CleanHands]

No.

[WiseGhost]

If she had a high gpa in her masters and an lsat in the high 160s, then yes. But as it stands, I haven't heard of many students who have been accepted with those stats. 

[LMP]

1 hour ago, Law nerd 221 said:

Hi,

FYI, I'm asking this for someone else.

UG GPA 2.78 (from the UK), LSAT 157, master's degree, decent work experience and reference letters.

Do you think she can get admission from any Canadian law schools?

Thanks!

Very unlikely. Unless that GPA converts extremely well. 

 

Exception might be if her last two years are very strong. In such a case I can see some options opening up. 

[Darth Vader]

No, and she should not go to a foreign law school if she wants to practice law in Canada, unless she has connections to the legal market.

[Law nerd 221]

11 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

No, and she should not go to a foreign law school if she wants to practice law in Canada, unless she has connections to the legal market.

Thanks for your response. 

I know she is very passionate and determined to be a lawyer. Is going abroad really that bad? What if its her last option?

[Thrive92]

Keep in mind that many law schools in Canada have gpa policies that may work in favor of your friend should she return to school to complete a few more courses in order to improve that gpa.

There are some law schools that outright take the highest mark out of courses that have been repeated (U of C and TRU), and there are some law schools that drop your worst x credits (Uvic and UBC). There are many more policies that other schools take into consideration.

I would highly recommend your friend to take a few more courses in her local post - secondary institution or an online school (Athabasca, TRU - OL, etc) in order to improve that gpa. These courses may not transfer well as the courses she has taken so far are from overseas, but there are several law schools that look at only the most recent x courses or credits of the applicants.

I really have no information about getting a law degree abroad, so I cannot comment on that. However, if your friend would like to enroll in a Canadian law school, she may consider taking some additional courses like I mentioned.

[WiseGhost]

Quote

36 minutes ago, Law nerd 221 said:

Is going abroad really that bad? What if its her last option?

Yes. From everything that I've heard, employers make the (usually true) assumption that if you pursued a law degree abroad, you weren't able to get into a law school in Canada. They also discriminate against people who studied abroad because its likely that their understanding of law doesn't fully apply to the Canadian context. Now, if she wants to study abroad and then work in her country of study, that's ok. 

Your friend should also consider whether or not her ambition to attend law school is backed up by her aptitude for it. One of the reasons that law schools are looking for candidates with high GPAs and LSAT scores is because performance in this area is linked to success in law school. If she received a 2.78 gpa in her undergrad without any extenuating circumstances and didn't excel grade wise during her masters, she might not be suited for the academic rigor of law school. 

[CleanHands]

@villiuski - I agree with most of what you have to say, with some caveats.

18 minutes ago, villiuski said:

Now, if she wants to study abroad and then work in her country of study, that's ok. 

This is far from true. For example, many unsuccessful Canadian law applicants study in the UK. In order to become a practicing barrister, one needs to obtain a pupillage. Less than 10% of pupillage applicants are successful every year, and this figure includes all applicants including those who went to Oxbridge, etc. For those who study law in the UK at the kind of schools that accept failed Canadian law students, of course the figure would be much lower. Their prospects of becoming practicing barristers in the UK are probably even worse than their prospects if they return to Canada and try to practice here.

25 minutes ago, villiuski said:

she might not be suited for the academic rigor of law school. 

I agree with everything you wrote except to add that law school is nearly impossible to fail and the process of simply obtaining a JD or LLB once admitted is not remotely "rigorous."

With that said, performing well in law school is indeed hard (unless you are @BlockedQuebecois). Performing well as a practicing lawyer does require intelligence and work effort. And yes, someone with a 2.78 GPA and 157 LSAT has not demonstrated much in the way of intellectual horsepower.

[WiseGhost]

@CleanHands

Thank you for correcting some of my misconceptions. I didn't know that about the UK system. I was thinking more about studying in the states, but that has its own problems, like sky-high tuition and an extremely competitive job market. 

Also, as an applicant, its frankly encouraging to hear somebody say that law school isn't that hard. 

[Darth Vader]

1 hour ago, Law nerd 221 said:

Thanks for your response. 

I know she is very passionate and determined to be a lawyer. Is going abroad really that bad? What if its her last option?

I'm sorry to say this, but if your friend was so passionate and determined to be a lawyer, why are her stats so low? 

I don't want to beat a dead horse as this has been discussed ad nauseum on the internet. Go through the US and Foreign Law Schools section of this forum, as well as Reddit Law Canada. Simply said, your friend would be competing with thousands of Canadian law students, as well as foreign trained lawyers immigrating to Canada with a significant amount of experience practicing law in their home countries. Canadians that attend foreign law schools and return to Canada shortly after are at the bottom of the hiring pool. 

Most foreign trained lawyers in Canada are not practicing law or in what I consider to be undesirable jobs. What specifically does your friend want to do as a lawyer?

[CleanHands]

6 minutes ago, villiuski said:

@CleanHands

Thank you for correcting some of my misconceptions. I didn't know that about the UK system. I was thinking more about studying in the states, but that has its own problems, like sky-high tuition and an extremely competitive job market. 

Also, as an applicant, its frankly encouraging to hear somebody say that law school isn't that hard. 

No worries and yeah, in the States one can probably become a practicing lawyer with an open admissions diploma mill JD, but they wouldn't really be better off in that position than the UK grad without a pupillage. lol

And yeah, if you can get admitted to law school, as long as you write your exams and submit your papers you will get that degree. Most law students end up choking on an exam at some point and writing the exact opposite analysis compared to what they should have (based on missing a "not" in a test or something due to rushed reading) and still ending up with a C+ or B- in the course. 🙂

Edited October 26, 2021 by CleanHands

[QueensDenning]

3 hours ago, CleanHands said:

No worries and yeah, in the States one can probably become a practicing lawyer with an open admissions diploma mill JD, but they wouldn't really be better off in that position than the UK grad without a pupillage. lol

And yeah, if you can get admitted to law school, as long as you write your exams and submit your papers you will get that degree. Most law students end up choking on an exam at some point and writing the exact opposite analysis compared to what they should have (based on missing a "not" in a test or something due to rushed reading) and still ending up with a C+ or B- in the course. 🙂

I've done this on an exam and still got a B+ lol. In two classes. 

[BlockedQuebecois]

5 minutes ago, QueensDenning said:

I've done this on an exam and still got a B+ lol. In two classes. 

I once ignored the “pick one of the following three essay questions to answer” during a 1L exam and wrote three essays in the hour allotted rather than one. I still received an A on the exam. 

You know, while we’re mentioning weird flexes 😛 

[CleanHands]

8 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

You know, while we’re mentioning weird flexes 😛 

The difference is that he admitted fucking up and not getting punished too badly for it, while you boasted about going above and beyond requirements and knocking it out of the park.

@villiuski and other applicants, this is why I mentioned this guy in the above post in this thread. Read any of his posts about his law school experience with the awareness that yours will likely be different. 😉

[BlockedQuebecois]

8 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

The difference is that he admitted fucking up and not getting punished too badly for it, while you boasted about going above and beyond requirements and knocking it out of the park.

It’s like you don’t even know me 😢 I consider doing triple the work a fuck up. 

And the A was me not getting punished too badly for it! 

Edited October 26, 2021 by BlockedQuebecois
Okay that last sentence is me trolling a tad

[QueensDenning]

59 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

I once ignored the “pick one of the following three essay questions to answer” during a 1L exam and wrote three essays in the hour allotted rather than one. I still received an A on the exam. 

You know, while we’re mentioning weird flexes 😛 

To make it more of a flex, I'll admit that those two B+s were my worst marks, and one of them was a half year (half credit) course! 

Edit: I did not find 1L as easy as BQ did, though. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by QueensDenning

[mistertubby]

you guys need to stop 

[CleanHands]

13 minutes ago, QueensDenning said:

-Snip-

I retract my implicit defence of you above.

[Hegdis]

Watch out, I'll start a spinoff thread titled "Congratulations Me For Being So...Me" and splice you guys off.

[GGrievous]

5 hours ago, villiuski said:

law school isn't that hard. 

I find it quite hard. I'm not worried about failing because they really don't set us up to, but I'm still having to do a ton of unpleasant work under high-pressure high-anxiety conditions. I'm exhausted and I pray for the sweet release of death every day. So I wouldn't say it's not that hard, but yeah you'll probably pass if you go. 

[Law nerd 221]

Well thanks everyone! I'll make sure to let my friend know about her options. One last question, do you know if schools consider that different countries have different grading scales and curves? I know for a fact that UK for example has a lower curve and it is harder to get a higher grade (I also did my UG in the UK) comparing to Canada or states.

[QueensDenning]

15 minutes ago, Law nerd 221 said:

Well thanks everyone! I'll make sure to let my friend know about her options. One last question, do you know if schools consider that different countries have different grading scales and curves? I know for a fact that UK for example has a lower curve and it is harder to get a higher grade (I also did my UG in the UK) comparing to Canada or states.

As far as I know, they do not take that into consideration. Which makes sense considering that a 3.3 in engineering probably won't get you into law school, but a 3.7 in gender studies will. 

[BlockedQuebecois]

Most, if not all, schools will require a WES conversion of your foreign undergraduate transcripts, which will adjust for the different grading cultures between the UK and North America.

[Kobe]

14 hours ago, CleanHands said:

And yes, someone with a 2.78 GPA and 157 LSAT has not demonstrated much in the way of intellectual horsepower.

I just needed to say this is hilarious LOL